Watch what you say?

R

ree

Inactive
During a particularly good right to carry training course, the instructors drilled into us how, after a shooting, even the most innocuous of things said might be twisted by an overzealous prosecutor and used against us regardless of how clean the shoot was.

Now there are a number of "what would you do in situation XYZ" threads on this site. And it seems that some are pretty eager to let you know how readily they'd take action with their firearms.

How many of you ever think about the possibility, however remote, that if you ever were involved in a shooting and a prosecutor wanted to hassle you, they'd suboena your computer usage activities find out you used a site like TFL and try to use your own words against you, painting a picture of you as a bellicose right winger?

I know "freedom of speech" and whatever, but how many of you actively temper your posts because you'd rather mind your words up front than try to defend them in desperation later was they were used against you? How many of you haven't given it a second thought? How many of you are doing your best to poke the stick into the eyes of those who'd snap at a chance to go after you if you gave them a reason?

------
Don't call me paranoid. They might hear you and try to do something about it.
 
There have been numerous threads about this issue. I guess it depends on how 'high profile' the case got, as to wether or not they would dig that far. Or if there was a serious question of the shooting being justified. Now as a general rule, I *try* not to say anything too outrageous anywhere, but it doesn't always work....especially in political discussions. :D
 
delete your history and your cookies.


let them figure out, and spend money and time if they wish, to figure out who you are let alone what you said and when


either that or just stop talking to anyone who might remotely be anti-gun because they could be writing down your conversation just incase you screw up.



fear the sheep! blah
 
How many of you ever think about the possibility, however remote, that if you ever were involved in a shooting and a prosecutor wanted to hassle you, they'd suboena your computer usage activities find out you used a site like TFL and try to use your own words against you
Click to expand...

How are they going to prove that it was my fingers that typed in the messages?
 
"How are they going to prove that it was my fingers that typed in the messages?"

They won't, and they won't care. The prosecutor will just show somehow that the messages came from your computer and then make his best "Mike Wallace fake deer-in-the-headlights shocked look" for the jury to see. Mission accomplished.

Tim
 
I might be totally naive, but it seems to me alot of these types of discussions are taken overboard. I really don't see any such case where you would need to defend yourself in court against a zealous prosecutor. Our court systems are flooded with too many cases against real bad guys. In any situation, use your head first and your gun second. If you're scared you might shoot someone unlawfully then maybe you shouldn't be carrying a gun. CCW laws that have come about in the recent past should show that your governments(federal, state, local) see the need that their citizens may one day need to defend themselves and trust them to use discrection in such a situation. Your government is not out to get you! Well except for your money :) . Be a responsible gun owner and a responsible citizen and you'll be just fine. I'm sure I'm probably in the minority here with my point of view but a little balance is always a good thing.
 
any personality profile they may garner from my TFL posting would likely run counter to the prosecutions case.

can't say that i disagree with you, ree, but i can only live at a paranoia level of yellow (elevated).

and if i am looking for a reason to shoot someone, begging the question if you will, i probably deserve to be prosecuted.

don't do anything with a gun that you wouldn't do without.
 
Yeah Derius T knows about these sorts of threads. And I would agree, that a prosecuter could easily supoena server files. That would be some pretty crafty investigation work, but they will grab whatever they can find.

Its very hard because my personality mandates that I tell the truth at all times. I also feel lying will always get you into a bigger pile sh*t than not lying.

I do know one thing, if I ever had the unfortunate event of having to defend my life, I would excercise my 5th and 4th amendment rights so much Id be able to bench press a stack of 100,000 constitutions.

I would let my lawyer do ALL of the talking.
 
How about saying, "Please don't hurt me!" as you fire shots at the bad guy? Any witnesses will repeat to the judge and jury what they heard you say. It is a strategy recommended to us during a recent intermediate CCW practice class. It made sense to me.
 
I temper my posts just as I temper what I say in conversation.
I temper my actions to reflect my personal values. Why would I not do the same with my words?
 
I think it was Massad Ayoob who first commented that one strategy is to back away from your attacker yelling something like "Stop, I don't want to shoot you" or "Stop! Don't make me shoot you!" as you draw.

This provides witnesses who heard you clearly tell the attacker to stop and that they would be shot if they didn't stop. In court, it shows you at least tried words to stop the attack against you.

Be that as it may, Ayoob also noted that your conversations with friends or neighbors may be brought up in court. Imagine this little bit of testimony;

DA: Did your neighbor ever mention anything about shooting someone?
Neighbor: He told me if you ever shoot someone, kill them so they don't lie about what happened.
DA: Can you remember his exact words?
Neighbor: Yah. If you shoot, kill the bas---- so he can't lie about giving up. And if he doesn't have a gun, just put a knife in his hand.
DA: A knife?
Neighbor: Yeah, he even showed me a cheap knife he always carried.

Stupid "macho" comments can get you into trouble.

I think the best thing to say at the scene of a shooting is that you don't feel good and should probably talk to your lawyer then add; gangway I'm gonna be sick! That oughta get 'em to leave you alone for a while.
 
many years ago, when I did have to defend myself, i did not have to have any stories made up, or what not.

it was drilled into me, and i honestly still believe it. one simple wish.

"STOP!"

You are not shooting to kill someone. or hurt someone, or to scare someone. You defend yourself for one reason, and one reason only: to stop the attack.

You are not acting out of "Fear", nor "anger". You are not trying to "teach them", or "argue" with them.

Nor do you have any desire to "hold" him, to "stop him from fleeing".. "to serve justice", "punish him" or anything like.

You have one, and only one goal: to stop the attack and be able to leave unharmed.
 
Nice replies. I have taken a tactical class in the past, alot of it was offense related for SWAT and military type situations and only covered defensive shooting for a short period. It was very specific to a task force that I am part of, this is why it was offensive.

Defensive is obviously more important to me, due to the fact that I may never be in an offensive sitation and not to mention, I am a medic, so the offensive stuff was less directed to me, due to the fact that I am not an offensive officer.

I have often wondered what I should say do to stop an attack if my life is threatened in a regular civi environment. Obviously firing a warning shot is out of the queston, according to the law.
 
snacktrack wrote:

Yeah Derius T knows about these sorts of threads.
Click to expand...

Yeah, your right, I do have some strong opinions on these types of threads, that have anything to do with the legal system. Maybe I learned the hard way just exactly how bad lawyers can be at twisting your words, and inventing things to sway the minds of a jury. Maybe ANYTHING you SAY, CAN AND WILL, be held against you in a court of law. Maybe you SHOULD put brain in gear before engaging mouth. Maybe a person hearing or seeing things other people have gone through will keep them out of a legal mess? Maybe they will learn through others to guard what they say, and be careful what info they give, or HOW they say what they say. Maybe I am just trying to educate people on just how slippery and slimey a lawyer or prosecuter can be? I thought thats what this board was all about? Helping each other to learn? What was your latest contribution towards educating or helping someone? Oh...I remember......RAP MUSIC BAD! Very educational. If I ever find myself being questioned for shooting someone in a self defense situation,
I'll be sure to quote from your insightful threads, and explain to them that rap made me do it......nice......
 
One trick that cops and the investigators use is the "corrective statement confession".

This is where, after insisting on your 5th amendment right to clam up at the scene, you're shuffled off to another room or outside to wait for the "investigators". After a long wait, two PD types will start comparing notes and they will make some statements within your earshot, such as "Yeah, from the looks of the body he was surrendering when he was shot." While the other cop might add something like "Looks like the shots came from the kitchen. Who else but some crazy gun-nut would have a gun in the kitchen?" These statements will, most likely, be between "mis-characterizing" the shooting to outlandishly wrong.

The point is to get the clammed-up shooter to spontaneously exclaim "No, I shot him from the hallway!" -- which gives them an admissible, voluntary statement that you did shoot him and where you were.

When faced with such a monumental emotional moment, we all would like to the cops to take one look, listen to what happened and the say with a smile, "good shootin'!" That need for approval, for acknowlegement that we did the right thing can override our better judgement. It's better to let your lawyer shred their "theories" than say something stupid.

And it is especially important to make sure your spouse keeps his/her mouth shut too.
 
bill of rights DVD

Speaking of 5th amendment rights, I just got in my "Busted" DVD in the mail today from www.flexyourrights.org
I havent watched it yet, Im going to watch it tomorrow. Not that I plan on getting arrested, but I want to know my rights.

They have actors act out common scenarios like traffic stops, searches, interrogations, etc and what you should say, and what NOT to say or do.

I am realizing just how important it is to not say a damn thing to the police if you are ever questioned.
 
^^^I have a state trooper tell me once tell me the number one rule in the book is never admit your guilt to an officer. This seems to cover every scenerio I can think of.
 
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