"Wasp Waist" bulge in cases

The "wasp waist" happened to me when I first started loading 40 S&W. I use the RCBS carbide 3 die set. It improved when I set the expander to go a bit deeper. But they feed and function perfectly fine in my 40's.

It isn't gone, and I can't prevent it without reaming the sizing die. However, at least I know setback isn't going to happen
 
UPDATED----

As requested did some measurements, including pulling bullets to measure and observe scraping on the coating..


Caliper Measurements (with a coated bullet seated in case):

Diameter of case at midpoint between Case Rim and Case Bullet seat= .375"

Diameter of case between Case Bullet Seat and Case Mouth = .378"

This definitely explains the wasp waist, the case is slightly bulged underneath where the bullet is seated.

I pulled one of the bullets. It was EXTREMELY hard to remove, and once pulled the coating on the bullet was scraped off in many places; the scrapes were along the entire bullet, not just at the crimp. The bullet diameter measured at .358".

I reduced my crimp to almost nil, ran a few dummy rounds. The wasp waist and measurements remained the same as previous rounds. The scraping was a bit less, but extraction was still extremely difficult.

I measured several of my other .357/.38sp rounds created on the same press that used LHBWC and RN Plated bullets. These showed no signs of wasp waist and the diameter was consistent across the length of the case (.375").

Next I measured the diameter of new bullets pulled from their original packages

Berrys Plated RN = .357" diameter across bullet length

Hornady LHBWC = .356" dia @ base, .357" dia Mid .358" dia at nose

Acme Coated BNWC = .358" dia across entire length

The same brass source was used...


Is the slightly larger bullet diameter of the Acme creating the wasp waist and hard seating? or are the coated bullets simply "harder" preventing them from conforming to the case? or both?

I was using a Hornady Digital caliper for the measurements which is not calibrated and not a precise instrument. To compensate I measured multiple times with multiple bullets, the measurements stayed consistent.
 
The scraping of the coating you report tells me that it's both. The hollow base of the Hornady swaged WC's is designed to expand under pressure to grip the rifling, so the fact it's a little under diameter makes no difference. Your plated bullets are sized like jacketed bullets because the copper is tough enough to resist gas cutting if the fit isn't dead perfect. The coated bullets, like hard cast bullets are sized a thousandth over to ensure groove fill to avoid gas cutting, which leads a barrel and compromises accuracy.

So, what should you do? There are some options. If your cases are squeaky clean and polished smooth on the inside, it will exaggerate their friction with the coated bullets. Cases don't need to be shiny, though I find it does make them easier to spot on the ground. One thing you can do to avoid the friction shine is tumble with Nu-Finish or some other car cleaner that leaves a little coating on the surface. If you pin tumble, using a self-waxing car washing concentrate instead of dishwashing liquid will have the same effect. These coatings may provide enough lubrication to ease bullet seating, but you'll have to experiment to be sure. Using a dry lube on the bullets would be next on my list to try. That is, put them in a plastic tub with some motor mica powder or graphite and shake them around until you get a coating. Alternately, you could stand the bullets up on a cookie sheet and apply a spray case lube, like One Shot, and let it dry for a day. An alcohol solution with Lee case lube could be sprayed on and allowed to dry. You could put graphite powder into a pump sprayer with alcohol to suspend it and spray that. Just mind the flammable fumes. How much graphite to add, you will need to experiment with. The Lee lube, which leave a white dry lubricating layer behind, is usually dissolved 10:1 in alcohol for a spray case lube. You might get away with thinning it even more in this instance.
 
UncleNick...

You must be psychic !!

Guess what I tried today prior to reading your post? Squirted some RCBS case lube into the flaring and seating dies, and then sprayed a bit on a handful of coated bullets.

The flaring was smooth as silk, and the bullets slid in like hand in glove. They still had resistance, but more inline with the plated. Wasp waist is still a tiny bit present, but almost negligible compared to before. The hard seating combined with the wobbly button nose must have been driving them off center and producing the wasp waist.

Thanks for sticking with me to solve this problem. Its not completely solved, but mitigated enough to classify as a success.
 
Just got my Lyman M Die yesterday... Hooked it up last night....Followed the setup procedures to the letter. No matter what I did the cases were crushed with even a minimal setting. Opened the die. and the center flaring shaft is too small a diameter, its completely entering the case without even touching the case mouth...obviously the wrong die.


Checked the Lyman Orange Storage Box...

The sticker attached says 38Spec/357 MAG and has the correct part number. ........ Looked closer, the 'sticker' had been placed 'over' another sticker with a different bar code.

--Checked the other end of the box, found yet another sticker that says Item Number 7349004 30 M1

----Yup...its the die for an M1 rifle ....thanks Amazon... :mad:
 
Dang, Ben. Now you've got to explain to the missus why you absolutely need to buy an M1 Carbine to add to your collection.
 
Just got my Lyman M Die yesterday... Hooked it up last night....Followed the setup procedures to the letter. No matter what I did the cases were crushed with even a minimal setting. Opened the die. and the center flaring shaft is too small a diameter, its completely entering the case without even touching the case mouth...obviously the wrong die.


Checked the Lyman Orange Storage Box...

The sticker attached says 38Spec/357 MAG and has the correct part number. ........ Looked closer, the 'sticker' had been placed 'over' another sticker with a different bar code.

--Checked the other end of the box, found yet another sticker that says Item Number 7349004 30 M1

----Yup...its the die for an M1 rifle ....thanks Amazon...


Wow! That tops my primer story, about how I bought some single sleeve BR-2 primers and within one sleeve some were BR-4
 
My worst equipment order mixup was the time I ordered two Taper Crimp dies for 44Mag/Spl from Midway. I got two Roll Crimp dies.

Since the boxes were labeled TC; I assumed the error was at RCBS - they put the wrong dies in the box. I called RCBS and they immediately made it right - of course, they always do. They sent me two correct dies and a return label for the ones I had.
 
I have to give credit to Amazon..

Called them last night and explained the sticker problem. They refunded my rush shipping fee, sent the return label, and immediately sent a replacement via rush shipping. They also gave me a $10 credit for the crushed brass, in reality only worth 50 cents...

Just hope I dont get another mislabeled die.....
 
I've had this happen pretty often in .38,.41mag, and .357mag over the years with no problems. I figure as long as they easily fit in the chamber and I hit what I'm aiming at why fret over it. As far as the Acme coated accuracy issue, I shoot a ton of them and get excellent accuracy, but have heard that the wadcutters aren't too hot so have stayed away from them. Pretty hard to beat the lead HBWC for accuracy. I stick those suckers in my model 14 and it's so easy to be accurate it's almost boring, I mostly just shoot them when I want to show off and fool someone into thinking I'm a good shot. :)
 
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