Washington State voters do it again

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Buzzcook, 15% is not a huge amount regarding ivory grips on a revolver. It is possible that some revolvers cannot pass the 15% test, depending on how the volume is measured. (See my original post for more about volume.)
 
depending on how the volume is measured
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Length x width x height (in the various formulas for various shapes)

I don't know why anyone would overthink and complicate that, but I can see where someone writing a law or a regulation might....

I also question the fairness of the concept that is manifest here, that you cannot sell your ivory NOW, but your inheritors can as soon as they can document 100 years passage, UNLESS, of course the law is changed yet again, in the future...
 
Measuring the volume of an irregular shaped object is not hard. Wrap the gun in a thin plastic wrap then place in a graduated cylinder filled with water. Read the volume of the water prior to and after placing the gun in the water, subtract. Remove the grips and do the same with them, should not need to wrap the grips. A straight cylinder like a large diameter pipe and a ruler can substitute for the graduated cylinder. More math involved but still simple. there are more accurate methods but this should suffice unless you are really close to 15%.
 
So, some of you guys seem to be thinking that "volume" includes the empty space inside the bore, between the grips, etc. Would you be willing to face possible criminal charges based on that? You may be right, but how do we know?
 
Cj, I was talking about selling them out of state. Go to a gun show in another state or similar, or just listing the grips ad not for sale in WA, or similar.
 
Leadcounsel. This is way ahead of time here, but lets jump 40 years into the future here. World Population is rising and will continue to rise. At some point in time we will require most of the wildlife area for human population. So now what?. I hate to say it and most will hate to read it, But in the future- The only animals you will see will probebly be in a musem. While i do not condone poaching, legal huntinng to thin the crop is a must.
 
The first thing that should be thought about any law is invariably the last thing considered after it has become law. How can it be twisted, and how far? Remember income tax? Estate taxes? How about our favorite bugaboo, the NFA and things like arm braces? Regardless of what you think about each and every one of those examples, what the point is that writers of law should never concentrate solely on what the law is SUPPOSED to do, but what in can be PERVERTED to do. Badly written law can be perverted to insane lengths by determined people, sometimes an inch at a time, until the "new" thinking is the norm.
The mentality of poachers and game hunters and ivory collectors is the same. They want stuff that they shouldn't want. This is a demand-side economics issue. The demand must be eliminated through laws and education.
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I've read that before, but that one said;
The mentality of hunters and gun collectors is the same. They want stuff that they shouldn't want. This is a demand-side economics issue. The demand must be eliminated through laws and education.
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The mentality of poachers and game hunters and ivory collectors is the same. They want stuff that they shouldn't want. This is a demand-side economics issue. The demand must be eliminated through laws and education.
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OR WHAT? You going to put folks in camps becasue the jails won't hold us all? What then, when the camps are full? What's your final solution?

"Where there is animal worship, there is human sacrifice." G.K. Chesterton
 
Hunters, for the most part, are the largest group of conservation advocates there are
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Funders maybe, advocates I am not so sure, especially when taken as a comprehensive group and not a vocal minority.

I'd love an ivory chess set to compliment my Ivory cuff links. Those cufflinks were legally bought by my great grandfather less than 100 years ago and brought back to the US legally, BTW.

Why would anyone want to own a table with elephant's feet as legs. Seems demented and disgusting.
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Where can one buy such a thing? Outside Washington of course. I don't see how this is any different than people wanting a white tail mount on the wall. I don't want a white tail mount, but an elephant leg table would be much more interesting. Maybe an elephant leg bed would be better.

Hunters (legal and illegal, which there is a gray line since the only difference is who profits) are totally responsible for the erradication of many species, including the 80-95% destruction of many current species like I mentioned in just the last few decades. And why? To satisfy some corrupted mentality lust for pretty ivory or money paws or magical rhino horns. Disgusting.
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Stopping All hunters won't change the fact that 95% of the habitat has been destroyed. Most of these endangered animals have large ranges and there simply isn't habitat left for more of them to take up.
Good luck passing a state law in Washington that will stop villagers in Africa from killing an elephant in musth rampaging through their village. It won't stop warlords from killing these animals and selling the parts to "Chinese Doctors" The simple reality is stopping 100% of Western hunters wouldn't put a DENT in elephant deaths. Look at the actual transit statistics and you will see the products are almost exclusively going to China, Thailand, and a few other Asian countries.

I understand most would prefer to shoot poachers rather than elephants.
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Is that now a Safari option? What is the pricing?

Again, anyone here think it's okay to shoot bald eagles?
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30 years ago when DDT had decimated the population? No. Now with it growing quickly to where they won't be endangered for long? No. In 20-30 years when the population has expanded to fill the available habitat? Why not? I MIGHT EVEN FRY ONE UP AND EAT IT. Same as I've done to pheasant without pause. Of course, I've been known to take buckeyes off of yet living trees and drill holes into them to make jewelry sold for profit. Maybe I'm just a sadistic capitalist.

There are much much larger problems in Africa the people of Washington could waste their time trying to address. Problems which preclude any sort of solution to the "large game extinction" issues. Might as well have sent a container ship full of aspirin to combat the Ebola Fever epidemic. It is a fever after all.
And to put it all in perspective.
Africa: 200,000 Children enslaved per year. Twice as many children enslaved as elephants killed. Probably more African child slaves end up in Washington than illegal elephant ivory also.
Latin American child slaves are sometimes forced to carry drugs into the US during transit. Maybe a similar link found with African child slaves carrying illegal ivory into the US could motivate Washington voters to act on the child trafficking issue.
 
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Africa: 200,000 Children enslaved per year. Twice as many children enslaved as elephants killed. Probably more African child slaves end up in Washington than illegal elephant ivory also.
Latin American child slaves are sometimes forced to carry drugs into the US during transit. Maybe a similar link found with African child slaves carrying illegal ivory into the US could motivate Washington voters to act on the child trafficking issue.
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And yet not once person here would clamor in uproar of laws to protect children against various abuses.
 
Let's not forget the homeless veterans on the streets of Washington cities, yet we can pass a law condemning gramps's dominoes by a stiff margin.
 
Guys, this is a gun law forum, and this thread is about how I-1401 in Washington state affects guns with ivory.
 
Guys, this is a gun law forum, and this thread is about how I-1401 in Washington state affects guns with ivory.
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It's called arguing by analogy. The word "gun" need not be in every post.

The argument began with clamoring over some extremely tenuously related gun measure that might have an impact on big game hunting and trophies from it. Cries of some weak nexus infringing on the 2A, which it doesn't by any stretch.

One position is that it's an over reach that will do nothing but criminalize folks. The other position is that it's unrelated to any 2A legit activities (since we all agree that the 2A is not about hunting, right?), and that passing such a law is fully within the rights of the legislature/voters.
 
I guess my only question is- Is this law in Your state only?. At that point it becomes a( I really don't care thing ). Or is this law for all of the USA?. At which point I do care. So what I get out of these post's- If my Grand-dad gave me a Ivory Chess set or Ivory Pistol handels that have been in the family for say 50 plus years- I now have become a criminal if I try to sell them to someone?.
Now if this law is for protecting elephants from being hunted outside the legal ways- I am for it. If not all you did was create a law that serves no future purpose and created a law that turns law abiding person's into criminals. Which in no way stops, prevents or makes squat of a difference for the paochers. It is as lame as taking guns away from law abiding people. Maybe Washington is beginning to be as strange as Cal is?.
 
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