Washington DC Council to Enact Sweeping New Gun Laws Tomorrow

I am a big fan of the DC Legislature! There are no better friends of defenders of the 2A than these loons.

They are going to pass incredibly restrictive and draconian rules for handguns which will be challenged to the circuit court in record time. That would be the court they pissed off by disregarding its decision and taking the challenge to the SCOTUS. Once the circuit court tells them where to stick their new regulations they can challenge it to the SCOTUS again. I am certain Scalia and company will be happy to see how DC has attempted to subvert the court's decision...:rolleyes:
 
The Second Amendment says, ".... the right to keep AND bear arms, shall not be infringed. The right protected is a right encompassing two actions, keeping AND bearing arms. Of course, you can't bear arms without being able to keep arms. Scalia also addressed this point in his dicta, although, as a previous poster mentioned, the Heller case was limited to "keeping" arms in D.C. But, since the second amendment includes both keeping and bearing arms under its protection, I don't see how the DC council and Mayor can "constitutionally" enforce their new laws. It certainly "infringes" on the Second Amendment's protection. As a matter of fact, it shreds it into confetti, IMO.

May the DC Council and Mayor be slapped up side the head, eventually. Unfortunately, they know all too well how long it will take to challenge each and every aspect of their new laws. This is a strategic stall, with the introduction of a myriad of new regulations which each, in a different way, go against what Scalia wrote in the Heller finding. Their hope is that each of these new regulations would have to be challenged on its own merits, meaning it would take up to a dozen or more cases to resolve. It took 5 years to get ONE ruling on Heller. The DC council and Mayor may be hoping that their stall will allow the appointing of more liberal judges who would be more favorable to gun control and might possibly overturn Heller. Heller must become a litmus test for judges when conservative senators are confirming appointees, just as Roe vs. Wade has become the litmus test for the liberal senators in confirming appointees to the federal bench, including the USSC.
 
Disgusted but no surprise. Those who make the laws are above the law, and as Clinton taught them, nothing short of conviction and incarceration is meaningful.

Fenty has Ray Nagin as a mentor.

Have the guns seized in NO been returned yet? I bet not.
 
Good quick statement on Appellate jurisdiction:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/

In nearly all of the cases heard by the Supreme Court, the Court exercises the appellate jurisdiction granted it by Article III of the Constitution. This authority permits the Court to review – and affirm or overturn – decisions made by lower courts and tribunals. Procedures for bringing cases before the Supreme Court have changed significantly over time. Today, cases are brought before the Supreme Court by one of several methods:

* By petition for a writ of certiorari, filed by a party to a case that has been decided by one of the United States courts of appeals or by the United States Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces.
* By petition for "certiorari before judgment," which permits the Court to expedite a case pending before a lower appellate court by accepting the case for review before the appellate court has decided it. However, Supreme Court Rule 11 provides that a case may be taken by the Court before judgment in a lower court "only upon a showing that the case is of such imperative public importance as to justify deviation from normal appellate practice and to require immediate determination in this Court."

The reason I posted this is I believe the reason the SC took the case from Washington D.C. is the non-existence of a lower court system. You go straight to Federal Court in D.C. which solves the 'fully litigated in the state courts first' delay for review of a case.

Also, CONGRESS retains the right to review and overturn laws created by the city council and intervene in local affairs.

As a federal judge in this area, you should follow the law, as stated by the Supreme Court. In other words, once the issue is clarified by the SC, the Appellate, and Federal judges will follow that decision, and, enforce the SC ruling.

I wonder how this is going to play out. It's going to be intresting to see what the Federal judges first hearing the cases see as reasonable, and, indeed if they pull from the decision that the standard of review for laws is this new Stevens created, 'reasonable' standard.

I also wonder if the first judge that hears the case on the restrictions, imposed, isn't going to go the extra step to really spank the lawmakers, and mayor. If you wanted to put yourself in position for promotion, and develop a reputation, a conservative judge on the federal bench could make a real name by being the first judge to pull from the decision that the writing implies that the 2A should also be under the strict scrutiny standard, same as the 1A.

Out here, the 9th circuit appellate boards are decided by a random chance lottery. liberal vs. conservative makeup of the judges in the D.C. district, 4 appointed by democrats, 10 appointed by republicans. It appears the odds are good in D.C. for a conservative Appellate review, and, with that in mind, the SC may well figure that the Appellate division will do their work, as they should, and, that the S.C. will not have to review many more cases by the lower D.C. courts.

Anyone know exactly how the Federal government operates the Washington D.C. court system, including the appellate system?

Thanks

PS: I think most judges appointed to the Federal Bench in D.C. view this as a career move, hoping to go further in their career. Janice Brown, a SC justice from Kali was so appointed, and, I went to law school with one of her attorneys. She moved for this reason.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janice_Brown

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Court_of_Appeals_for_the_District_of_Columbia_Circuit
The court is given the responsibility of directly reviewing the decisions and rulemaking of many federal agencies based in the national capital, often without prior hearing by a district court. Aside from the agencies whose statutes explicitly direct review by the D.C. Circuit, the court typically hears cases from other agencies under the more general jurisdiction granted to the Courts of Appeals under the Administrative Procedures Act. Given the broad areas over which federal agencies have power, this often gives the judges of the D.C. Circuit a central role in affecting national U.S. policy and law.

A judgeship on the D.C. Circuit is often thought of as a stepping-stone for appointment to the Supreme Court. Chief Justice John Roberts and Associate Justices Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas, and Ruth Bader Ginsburg are alumni of the D.C. Circuit.

It would appear that unlike other Federal appointments, where the judges are there for life, and don't really care if they are reversed, that is NOT the case with the
United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit.
 
The D.C. circuit court is more likely to strike down garbage new regulations than the SCOTUS is. The SCOTUS just has to decide whether they want to wade into another case. My guess is they won't until there are post-Heller 2A cases decided by several of the circuit courts, so I'm guessing D.C. will have a tough time keeping firearms laws on the books at least until then.
 
I'm simply amazed at some "elite leaders" in city, state and federal governments who concern themselves so much about guns while ignoring, corruption,drugs, poor education, etc, but darn they certainly love people to be victims while their homes are protected.:mad:
 
Wingman posted:
I'm simply amazed at some "elite leaders" in city, state and federal governments who concern themselves so much about guns while ignoring, corruption,drugs, poor education, etc, but darn they certainly love people to be victims while their homes are protected.

What a great point, Wingman. These yahoos surround themselves with "armed" security, while at the same time trampling upon the citizens' right to keep and bear arms, which is the most effective means of self defense, all in the name of "public safety". What a bunch of gangsters.

When Fenty is at home, does he have any body guards employed? Are they armed? Can Fenty have a gun to protect himself and his family if he so chooses? Does it have to be kept unloaded and disassembled or locked unless he faces an immediate threat?
 
I'm simply amazed at some "elite leaders" in city, state and federal governments who concern themselves so much about guns while ignoring, corruption,drugs, poor education, etc, but darn they certainly love people to be victims while their homes are protected.
That is an excellent point. This people are creating a class society, clearly NOT the intent of the founding fathers...

I don't know about Fenty, but Marion Barry sure didn't ignore
drugs. Does anyone remember if it 'possession with intent to
sell' or just enough for possession? He was convicted, wasn't he???
 
Firearms Control Emergency Amendment Act of 2008

Here it is: the joke of a bill that will most assuredly get challenged. I guess we'll be expecting the TFL lawyers and legal experts to rip this bill apart.
Firearms Control Emergency Amendment Act of 2008 (PDF)

The official press release: Mayor Fenty, Council Unveil Firearms Legislation and Regulations

The misguided and ridiculous leanings of the Washington Post: A New Gun Law

Here are some of the lovely highlights (from the press release)

The proposed legislation has four main components:
  1. Continues to ban handguns in most places but creates an exception for self-defense in the home. The handgun ban remains in effect, except for use in self-defense within the home. Sawed-off shotguns, machine guns and short-barreled rifles are still prohibited.

  2. Requires the Metropolitan Police Department to perform ballistic testing on handguns and makes such testing a registration requirement. The Chief of Police will require ballistics tests of any handgun submitted for registration to determine if it is stolen or has been used in a crime. Also, to serve as many residents as possible, the Chief will limit registrations to one handgun per person for the first 90 days after the legislation becomes law.

  3. Clarifies the safe-storage and trigger-lock requirements. The legislation modifies existing law to clarify that firearms in the home must be stored unloaded and either disassembled secured with a trigger lock, gun safe, or similar device. An exception is made for a firearm while it is being used against reasonably perceived threat of immediate harm to a person within a registered gun owner’s home. The bill also includes provisions on the transportation of firearms for legal purposes.

  4. Clarifies that no carry license is required inside the home. Residents who legally register handguns in the District will not be required to have licenses to carry them inside their own homes.

Your gun will tagged by the DC forensics people. (Remember, it's DC - The city where government employees are busy watching, ahem, "adult entertainment" on the job. The city that voted for Marion Barry even after the "B_____ set [him] up." I couldn't possibly trust DC government people to handle any bit of my personal information.

I suppose a "reasonably perceived threat of immediate harm" will translate to Mayor Fenty and that facist chief Lanier that it's okay to load your gun only after the robber has his weapon pressed against your right temple. "Excuse me, Mr. Robber sir, while I load my gun."

Like the urgings of Ron Popiel, you should wait! There's more!

Provisions for registering a handgun purchased for self-defense in a District residence.
  1. A District resident who seeks to register a handgun must obtain an application form from MPD’s Firearms Registration Section and take it to a firearms dealer for assistance in completing it.

  2. The applicant must submit photos, proof of residency and proof of good vision (such as a driver’s license or doctor’s letter), and pass a written firearms test.

  3. If the applicant is successful on the test, s(he) must pay registration fees and submit to fingerprinting. MPD will file one set of fingerprints and submit the other to the Federal Bureau of Investigation for analysis and criminal background check.

  4. MPD will notify the applicant whether all registration requirements are satisfied. At that point, the applicant returns to the Firearms Registration Section to complete the process and receive MPD’s seal on the application.

  5. The applicant takes his or her completed application to a licensed firearm dealer to take delivery of the pistol. If the dealer is outside the District, the dealer transports the pistol to a licensed dealer in the District to complete the transaction.

  6. The applicant takes the pistol to the Firearms Registration Section for ballistics testing. When testing is complete, the applicant may retrieve the pistol and take it home.

My legal knowledge is lacking, but aren't there multiple precedents that say chargining fees or forcing aptitude examinations is the same as infringing on a right? Which court cases were those?

There are 6 FFL dealers in DC. Only one of them is willing to do transfers. His name is Charles Sykes, Jr., owner of Cs Exchange Ltd. He mostly does transfers for security firms and some police. Get this - one of the FFL holders is part of the anti-gun Violence Policy Center. The owner of that FFL, Josh Sugarman, needs it for "research."

Supposedly the law will take affect in a matter of weeks. I suspect that given DC's history of messing everything up all the time, your typical gun application is gonna take months to complete, and somewhere in the dozens of forms, you'll have forgotten to dot an i or cross a t, so you'll be rejected.

I want to know what Mayor Fenty and that fascist Chief Lanier are thinking. They're just setting themselves up to be struck down again, consequently and potentially yielding addition RKBA precedents. I can imagine Boxer or Feinstein or Brady calling them at 3:05 a.m. to say, "Yo Adrian, just cut your losses and get out. Please."
 
But how long will it take to get his butt back into court? I suspect it will take some time. This appears to me to be an "in your face" stalling tactic to technically avoid infringing upon the second amendment, while he wipes his feet on the right's of the folks in DC. Well, they voted this monster in. I wonder if they'll sit up and beg for more morsels of rights from him and his council of shenanigans. If they continue to vote these people in to office, I have to wonder if they really want their rights protected or not. Unfortunately, this then becomes the majority trampling on the rights of the minority, and that's a big no no in America, according to the Constitution.

It must suck to be a DC resident if you also want to be able to keep and bear arms. Good luck. Your chains are still upon you and the Mayor and his lap dog COP, Cathy Lanier, are doing everything in their power to keep those chains in place. They know they won't have to remove those chains anytime soon.
 
If they continue to vote these people in to office, I have to wonder if they really want their rights protected or not. Unfortunately, this then becomes the majority trampling on the rights of the minority, and that's a big no no in America, according to the Constitution.

DING DING DING DING DING!!!! We have a winner.

That is EXACTLY what is happening and EXACTLY why we have a Representative Republic with Amendments requiring a super majority and not a straight democratic (aka mob) rule.

The majority of the DC residents do not feel the 2A crowd is doing them any favors. They though are conditioned from birth to believe that given their surroundings and see no reason why they should be forced to live with rules (or the lack off) that they do not agree with. What they fail to see is that the rules they wish to IMPOSE are just that, an IMPOSITION on another. They don't want a gun, fine. The problem is THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO HAVE ONE. They do not recognize the logic in the arguments regarding self defense or that it is only the law abiding punished here.
 
But how long will it take to get his butt back into court? I suspect it will take some time.

I attempted to explain that the court situation in D.C. is VERY fast, compared to having to litigate first in state court, then into federal court.

At anytime, Congress could step in, and overturn the laws.
At anytime the Supreme Court could pull the cases up, and hear them.

Federal judges, much less the Supreme Court don't take failure to follow precedent lightly.

Heller does clear the way to get into court quickly, since they are now dealing in a clarified area of law, and, an individual constitutional right.
 
Socrates said:
I attempted to explain that the court situation in D.C. is VERY fast, compared to having to litigate first in state court, then into federal court.

What he said. There is no better place to have this fight right now since if DC thumbs its nose at the SCOTUS it will make its way back to them faster than anywhere else in the nation.
 
My understanding was that in the Heller decision, all that was decided was that government could not ban guns, and that the 2nd was an individual right, but said clearly that regulation was still fine.

Is that not the case?
 
Get this - one of the FFL holders is part of the anti-gun Violence Policy Center. The owner of that FFL, Josh Sugarman, needs it for "research."

Hmmm, I thought the BATF requires an FFL holder "to be engaged in the business"? Per the BATF: "The term "engaged in business" as applied to a dealer in firearms refers, in part, to a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to engaging in such activity as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelyhood and profit." What are his hours of operation, and where is his business premises located? I was under the impression that the BATF was cracking down on FFL's for personal use. :rolleyes:
 
My understanding was that in the Heller decision, all that was decided was that government could not ban guns, and that the 2nd was an individual right, but said clearly that regulation was still fine.

Is that not the case?
__________________

Please read a bit of the thread at the top, that's a sticky about Heller. What the results are from that decision are both huge, and, more will be established as cases are based on the Supreme Court ruling of the 2A as a fundamental right.
 
Socrates posted:
I attempted to explain that the court situation in D.C. is VERY fast, compared to having to litigate first in state court, then into federal court.

At anytime, Congress could step in, and overturn the laws.
At anytime the Supreme Court could pull the cases up, and hear them.

Federal judges, much less the Supreme Court don't take failure to follow precedent lightly.

Heller does clear the way to get into court quickly, since they are now dealing in a clarified area of law, and, an individual constitutional right.

I pray that you are right, Socrates. I hope they (DC Mayor, Council and COP) get their come-uppance much sooner, rather than later.

Congress won't step in. Look who's running congress. The liberals. They hate guns in civilian hands. They love guns which protect them.

The Supreme Court seems to have a lot on their plate. I'm not confident they will run to the scene of the crime and start taking names and kicking butt. Hopefully, I'm wrong about that.

I'm happy that he Heller decision was about Washington, D.C. for precisely the reasons you mentioned. It will be quicker there than anywhere else. Still, if it would take another 5 years somewhere else, and DC takes three years, it still isn't a grand situation for law abiding, potential gun owners, who choose to live in D.C. and want to be free. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong. I would gladly tip my hat and give you reverence for being right whilst I am wrong. I got no problemo with that scenario, Socrates. Still, excuse me if I decline to hold my breath waiting for Fenty and his band of merry makers to get their pee pee's whacked. I don't believe I'd look good as a smurf. ;)
 
Tying into Wingmans elitist post above, I was listening to a July 1st transcript of Ted Nugent on the Lars Larson show. Now, I know there are mixed feelings about Ted and some antics in his past, but please, look at what he says here, rather than who he is, if you have a beef with him. Let's not start an argument about Ted Nugent himself. That's not the point.

Here's what Ted said in part of that interview, regarding the Heller case (paraphrased).

The same 4 people who voted against the 2nd Amendment on the Supreme court, along with Hillary Clinton, Diane Feinstein, Barbara Boxer, and others, are the same people who deny you the right to defend yourself with a gun while having the audacity to send taxpayers the bill for their body guards, who defend their lives with a gun. On top of that, the body guards who are paid by the taxpayers to defend these people, must not have a gun in their own homes to defend their life and the lives of their families when they go home from their job.

The man has a great point. You can hear this at www.larslarson.com and go to the audio archives tab.Then select interviews. Do a resort from older to newer. Again, the interview was conducted on July 1st, 2008.

Here's the link:

http://www.larslarson.com/pg/jsp/ch...eaderDest=/pg/jsp/media/audiofileswelcome.jsp

Don't forget to resort from older to newer.
 
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