Wanting to be left alone, and overkill.

Sounds like a great way to get even with someone you don't like.

Just call the local police and tell them a story about how depressed they are, and that "he (or she) has guns." Then drive over, park a block away and watch the cops go after him.

Do you think this would work in Kansas ?

.... if only my ex lived in SC Iowa.
 
2nd Amendment said:

"Always someone around to defend the Keystone Cops..."

Where in my post did you read a defense of the "keystone cops"? At no time did I say the police were right or wrong. What I did address was the fact that several here seem are quick to adopt a position based on the one sided, possibly self serving remarks of Thurber. What did the sister tell police. What prior knowledge did the police have of Thurber and what were the actions once they arrived?
Reasonable people ask these sort of questions. However if your bias is so strong that you don't need more information before deciding, nothing I or anyone else would say could change your mind.
 
I was actually addressing Quinn, hence the use of "peanut gallery".

Thurber was coaxed out of his house last year. They claimed he was heavily armed then(yet they didn't destroy the place). They learned he was not, and that he was not a danger. His sister's latest call apparently had little confirmation because of the last event, which turned out to be a non-event.

There were a few other articles out, including this short one(which is all I can find now), http://www.ktiv.com/NewsDetail46.cfm?Id=26,10243 PLUS the fact the police filed no charges, either time, and plainly state no laws were broken and no crime committed. Based on this, especially the complete lack of charges EITHER time, and the fact it was all instigated by a phone call from a thousand miles away, it's very difficult to come to any conclusion other than this is yet another example of Stupic Cop Tricks.

If YOUR bias can provide any evidence to the contrary, rather than the usual style of defense which claims we "don't know all the story", then please enlighten me. Otherwise, based on the available data, the defenses are sounding pretty hollow...
 
I've been a cop for 25 years. This kind of crap goes on all the time. It started when every little podunk town/county decided it had to have MP5's and a SWAT team. Then they have to justify all that training and equpiment, so they start using them on every 'high risk' call or warrant service. Every excuse imaginable is used to activate the SWAT team, including "subject known to possess firearms." Nobody seems to ask if this indivudual has ever threatened or assaulted anybody with one.

Pretty soon, even uniform patrol is running around in tack-tickle BDU's. Most of our guys look more like balding HVAC techs, than policemen these days. I personally think we really lost something, when we quit presenting the public image of a clean-cut officer neatly-pressed Class A uniform. I believe that even the criminal element respected us more when we dressed in this manner.

SWAT has its place, and there have been times when I was glad to have them along. I can also recall a few events where SWAT+a simple warrant service= something loosely resembling the Cook County Courthouse scene from The Blues Brothers.

If we knew the whole story behind Thurber's prior statements and behavior, we might learn that SWAT was actually called for. If it wasn't then somebody in Uniform Patrol should have just gone to the door. When I was a field sergeant, I usually did this myself as opposed to sending one of the troops.

I guess in retrospect I have made a lot of 'high risk' trips to the front door by my lonesome, with my hand on a .357 snub in my left coat pocket, and my right hand bumping a cocked & locked 1911 as soon as the knock was accomplished. If I had a backup available I had them watching the back door, or nearby with a slug-loaded shotgun.

We were expected to have some balls in those days, and be able to play to the hand we were dealt. We were expected to be able to shoot, as well. And now we have come full circle. We have finally decide that policemen need training in "Patrol Response to Active Shooters" so we don't have to wait for a SWAT team while innocents are being killed.

As I sat through the classroom portion of that training I recalled a couple of incidents in the early 80's, when 'us midnight guys' charged through a building with guns at the ready, looking for known, armed badasses who had shot or assaulted victims inside that scene. It was exhilirating, scary and occasionally sickening, all in the space of a few seconds- and I wouldn't have missed it for anything. And I had to chuckle as I thought to myself-

"The more things change, the more they stay the same."
 
invssgt,

I could not agree more. We have lost something.

I remember myself as a freckle faced kid in the 1960s talking to the cop on a cafe' stool. I admired the cop's Smith & Wesson, and wanted to know more about shooting. That cop was dressed in blue, and his trousers had creases and taped seams, not cargo pockets. He wore a badged combo cover, not a baseball cap.

When police academies stopped training peace officers and began to train law enforcement officers, there was a huge shift in perception. When police officers began to wear cargo pants, T-shirts and ball caps, it exacerbated incrementally. Even the Marines know that tactical uniforms do not enhance public relations. Recruiters do not wear cammies. Perhaps in a decade or so, the police departments will start to see the error of their ways. One cannot enforce respect, only compliance.

FWIW, the same thing can be said of nurses. When Registered Nurses gave up nursing whites in favor of scrubs, the public no longer knew who was in charge in the hospital wards. Suddenly what the housekeeper or unit secretary said carried as much weight as the recommendation of the MSN educated RN. Yes, the scrubs are more convienient, and usually more comfortable. The perception of nursing as a profession suffered though. I do not know how many complaints I have received regarding a "nurse" who was not a nurse at all. Uniforms mean something, and they mean a lot if the person wearing them upholds the standards they represent. Toss aside the uniform, and it is not long before the professional standards and the public perception begins to die a slow death.
 
Too bad the police department didn't have Predator drones - they could have blown his house up from on high with the mere touch of a button.

But then the SQUAT team would have not gotten to play army...:barf:
 
2nd Amendment

Thanks for the link, I hadn't read that. The point remains that he had said something to his sister that upset her (his words) sparking concern for his saftey which led to a call to police (again). The police did try to talk him out before without success before bombarding his house. There are three options available.

1. Walk away when he doesn't respond. That won't happen, not because the police "have to win" but simply because it would be irresponsible to leave a person who is possibly endangering themself.

2. Station 3-4 officers there (enough for safety and containment) indefinitely until the citizen either killed himself or complied with your requests for cooperation. How long would you commit those resources?

3. Force entry or use agents to drive him out. In this case they waited 16 hours. How long should they have waited?

BTW he wasn't incarcerated (he wasn't charged, remember) a court reviewed the incident and committed him to a mental facility. There is a difference.

invssgtt

I agree, the militarization of the police has gone too far. However there is still a lot of basic police work being done out by the guys on the street. Heck I don't even like the use of nylon gear, it doesn't look professional to me.
 
I agree that this all got blown out of proportion and all. But when U have a swat team hanging out outside of your house and they tell you to come out... Well.. One way or another, ur gonna be out of your house. It's called the easy way and the hard way. Dude didn't want to do it the easy way so it went to the hard way. That could have ended up peacefully enough. I don't think a swat team should have ever been there in the first place. So, now taxpayers money is going to fix his house. I think the cops should have to dig into their own pockets and pay for it. Isn't there rules of engagment or something,... It has turned into a big joke over nothing. The easyest thing that could have been done to avoid it was just come out in the first place. Don't call your sister crying about how life sucks. In Wisconsin, u can call Charter hospital and they will listen to you cry and they'll try and make you feel better. I think everyone involed in this are a bunch of idiots. from the police to dude and his sister, hell,.. even the mail man.. A huge waste on a number of levels.
 
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