Want to get this off my chest/Your opinions

Couple of things

One, i dont feel like i did anything wrong. Im very safety minded. for the record my finger never went in the trigger gaurd. I actually grabbed it with the web of my hand over where the hammer would be and my thumb over the ejection port, with all four fingers below the trigger gaurd on the grip. then got a more regular grip on it, and checked the chamber, with the barrel pointing past his left arm, my right side. I "swept" him in the process of moving the gun to his left, my right, holding the pistol like a tool box handle.

My point is, with him all over the display mat and pistol like it was a dinner plate, the second i put a finger on it im "pointing" it at him. even if i followed the very wise advice said earlier in this thread, it would still be pointing at his family jewels, or his shins through the display.

All im saying is, he put me in an awkward position, i acted with safety in mind, did the best I could, and he embarrassed me. And i believe that shop lost a customer because of it, so he didnt do his job very well. Nobody at my favorite LGS has ever made me walk off in a bad mood

Its a shame, after i walked away a nice lady was incredibly helpful and knowledgeable showing me holsters.

Well, i guess thats why people have stores they like and stores they dont.

Thanks for the dissenting and agreeable opinions. I appreciate them both. I just wanted to get it off my chest and see what other people had to say.
 
I've learned that at a gun store it's all but impossible to avoid pointing the gun at someone. Gun shows are even worse. It happens. No one likes being flagged with a gun but it happens.
 
I watch gun store employees sweep customers, other employees, and themselves all the time. It happens constantly! The guy did not need to be rude about it. His technique was terrible because he set the guns down on the case pointing at his body. The clerk will be swept for a brief moment even if the customer points it down immediately since it's on the counter.

One good technique I have seen is the employee opens the action, drops the magazine, locks the slide back/opens the cylinder, switches his or her grip so that the grip is "available", and hands it to the customer without being in line with the muzzle at any time.

Proper customer etiquette is to point the gun down immediately. I keep the muzzle down (even if it's on the counter) while inspecting the gun.
 
^I also subscribe to the muzzle down philosophy, although recently a clerk wanted me to point at the rear wall of the store, behind which are the store offices, instead of down. I was confused but did as he asked.
 
Crowded environs are not a good place to examine a firearm
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You're exactly right. Unfortunately, circumstances aren't always conducive, and like it or not, slight compromises are made.

Generally the guys in my LGS check weapons to make sure they're clear first, then hand them over grip-first to me.
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This is proper form any time firearms are exchanged from one person to another. How I wish everyone knew that.

Now, I have two ideas on this that appear to conflict at first. #1 is that any weapon that is not in my immediate control is assumed to be loaded. As soon as it's handed back, even if it's been in full view, I check it again.

Why? Because I've heard of two instances in which people have brought their own ammunition and loaded a round into the gun to "test" something. In one case (a local gun show), a negligent discharge ensued and injured a bystander.

(This leads to rule number 1.5: never let a customer handle the gun and the ammunition for it at the same time. One or another. Never both.)

#2 is that I can't control everything. Heck, if you hand me back a weapon, even with the action open, I still have to close it and put it back on the shelf. At times, it's virtually impossible for me to do so without sweeping someone, in front of or behind the counter. The best we can do is be as careful as possible.

(Ironically, most people, even experienced shooters, don't realize that the first place they point the gun is downward at the counter in front of them. That happens to be right at my crotch.)

So, let's say I hand you a gun under those circumstances. You're as careful and prudent as possible, but the muzzle may cross someone's direction. I'd appreciate if you'd try to minimize that as much as humanly possible, and with the action open if necessary. I know that might not be 100% possible, and I'm not going to jump down someone's throat if they're being conscientious.

(Slam the slide shut and start waving it around, and we're having a different conversation, but I'm assuming you're not that guy.)

One of them told me they once received a weapon for someone from out-of-state, and there was a round in the chamber!
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Only once? I get it about three times a month. I have people walk in and pull them from the holster to hand them to me, fully loaded. Depending on their attitude, I sometimes confiscate the ammo. These are the same folks who wonder why so many gun shops don't allow carry.

Most of the time, it's the old gun that's been sitting in the dresser or the under the driver's seat, and the person doesn't even realize it's loaded. This is why I insist on retrieving the weapon from the bag/purse/dirty sock without the customer's assistance.

(I don't want the last words I hear in this life to be "omigod, I didn't think it was loaded...it didn't have the clip in!)

The best advice I can give to anyone, on either side of the counter, is to do the best we can under the limitations we're under.
 
I never point guns at people in guns shops, period. It doesn't take much effort to achieve this. I don't like it when people point guns at me either and won't stay in place if they do.

As far as rude clerks in general go, I don't enter a store to be treated rudely and won't tolerate it. I don't go into a store with a bad attitude either, though. It seems like the more masculine and/or expensive the product, the more macho man the clerk often is. But I don't worry about macho men. I am friendly but confident when I speak to clerks. And the product is the product, it either sells or doesn't sell itself to me. The big exception is when the owner/management is a jerk to the point that I think they wouldn't stand behind a product or their gunsmithing. That's when they lose a customer. Permanently.
 
You did nothing wrong, when I was selling guns I got so used to having them pointed at me that I quit noticing. Most customers would try to point the firearm in a safe direction after I handed it to them. As long as you made the effort to direct the muzzle away from him after picking the gun up I dont see a problem.

It doesnt matter if you swept him, it was no excuse for being rude. If it bothered him he should have politely brought it to your attention. As far as those people who insist that you were in the wrong, I doubt they have worked behind the counter at a busy gun store.
 
i always do like someone else in here said

grip the pistol, rotate it up with the muzzle still touching the counter, then pull it towards me and turn to one side as i point it towards the floor

and every actual shop i've ever asked to handle a weapon at has cleared the weapon, then handed it to me grip first, i do the same when returning it

i have had some rather rude experiences with a certain gun shop here in my area though...

went in, told the guy (who i later found out was the owner) that i wanted to buy a Glock 30, the conversation went like this

Him: 'A 30? that's a compact 9mm, right?'
Me: 'No, I believe it's a compact .45.'
Him: 'No, the 38 is a compact .45."
Me: 'The 37, 38, and 39 are the GAP guns, the 17, 19, and 26 are the 9mms, and the 21, 30, and 36 are the .45s.'
Him: 'No, the 17 is a .40.'
Me: *pointing into case below where i was standing* 'Umm, you have 17 right there with 9mm stamped on the side.'
Him: '...Maybe the 17 IS a 9mm, but I KNOW the 21 is a .40 and not a .45.'
Me: *pointing to the 3 foot long cardboard Glock cutout hanging on the cabinet beside us* 'There's a picture of a 21 with .45 AUTO stamped on the side.'
Him: 'Well, whatever, you're looking for what number again?'

after some searching, he told me that he could get me a Glock 30 for $650 (he sold one of my friends a 22 for $700, but he 'threw in' an extra mag, for a total of two mags, a cleaning brush, and a speedloader for that price, that was his story at least), and that the cheapest i'd find one anywhere else would be $680

needless to say i purchased my pistol elsewhere

they have a very reputable gunsmith that rents space there, so a month or so ago when i wanted my Sig to have some new sights put on it, i went there

i was told by many people that know this man personally to just go in and ask to speak with him

Young Clerk: 'What's going on man?' (i'm young, so things like that don't bother me)
Me: 'Not too much, can I speak with Mr. ______?'
Clerk: 'About what?'
Me: 'I want some work done on my pistol.'
Clerk: 'What kind of work?'
Me: 'A couple things, I'd really rather just speak with him if that's possible.'
Another Young Clerk: *turns to look at me* 'What'd you need bud?'
Me: 'I just need to speak with Mr. ______ please.'
Clerk 2: 'About what?'
Me: 'Getting some work done on a pistol.'
Clerk 2: 'What kind of work?'
Attractive Young Female Employee: *turns to look at me* 'What can I help you with?'
Me: 'I need to speak with Mr. ______.'
Woman: 'About what?'
Me: 'Getting some work done, is the man here or not?'
Woman: 'Oh no, he's not here, he's on vacation. Did you just need to drop your pistol off or what?'

i stopped myself from saying anything more than 'why did it take me 3 employees and 5 minutes to be told he was on vacation? tell him he lost business thanks to the three of you'
 
I'm with redmonster on this one. The folks at the gun store deal with newbies everyday and experienced gun owners. One would think experience would tell them to lay the gun down on the counter to the right or left of their body; grip toward the customer at a slight angle, but only after showing clear.

I find it a little awkward at a couple of the LGS in my area. If they aren't looking at you like you are stealing, they look at you like you are going to slip a bullet out of your pocket and start firing away. I try to stay out of those stores.

I personally don't like handling guns around other people; I always point them away from the others. I usually do a 1/8 turn from the clerk then pick up the gun with one hand and inspect. In your situation, I think the clerk should have stepped to one side or the other as you were surrounded while handling and inspecting the gun.

What is really unnerving is walking out of the airport in Mexico and seeing 8 Federalies point M4s and M249s right at me while laughing and joking with one another. The worst part besides thinking how easily I could have been gunned down was walking by and seeing their selectors on full auto and fingers in the trigger guards. One sneeze would have ended me!

Just my $0.02
 
Since he must give guns to customers hundreds of time a day, I wonder if the clerk set it down that way on purpose so he could intentionally belittle you. Some folks hate their job and dealing with the public is hard anyway. I think the guy was just an azz and wanted to take his frustrations out on someone and that someone happened to be you.
 
There's a small business code of conduct written somewhere that excludes a gun shop from standards that other business' have to follow. Arrogance and belittleing is required...Hey! It's tradition!:p
 
I frequent two small-ish gun shops. At both, regardless of who is behind the counter, ALL firearms are cleared by the salesman when they take them out of the display case or off the wall rack, the action is locked open (or the cylinder is out on a revolver), and the firearm is handed to the customer butt-first with an open action. If the counter drone DIDN'T lock it open and verify clear before allowing a customer to touch it -- shame on him.
 
rogelk said:
There's a small business code of conduct written somewhere that excludes a gun shop from standards that other business' have to follow. Arrogance and belittleing is required...Hey! It's tradition!:p
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Very true, and the primary reason brick-and-mortars rarely get my business.

It's not just guns, it's everything. I shop Amazon a ton because I can get the good cheaper, quicker, with amazingly friendly and attentive service (they actually call YOU, no waiting on hold, and I once had a customer service rep follow up on his cell phone while he was at home to make sure I was taken care of).

In the face of those benefits, I have such little tolerance for a business that acts like I am wasting their time.
 
To be honest LawScholar, I have 2 gun stores in my area I'll deal with. One is a typical shop and there attitude is slightly better than most and they offer fair prices. The other is a big box store that I'll refer to as 'C' (not sure on the forum rules). I'll probably get flamed for liking 'C' because many have had bad luck in the firearms department with them. I've had great customer service with them and their sale prices are tough to beat. However, they can't mount a scope for crap, but I can deal with that....I agree 100% with you on AMZ..I do alot of business with them as well.

The brick and mortars must hate AMZ, because (like many) I check out the item at the brick and mortars and do the purchase with AMZ. Which isn't quite fair I guess.:o
 
Don't feel bad rogelk, our local "C" has unbeatable prices on some brands of guns, just not brands I like. But the Ammo especially when on sale is dirt cheap. I mean come on, $12.99 per box of 50 Federal Brass Cased .40 S&W JHP's? You can barley buy 9mm for that cheap.


Not to hijack but I am hijacking...anyone else notice the price of ammo starting to really come down?
 
Haven't read the responses, but...

I've been in that same situation; gun laid on the counter with the muzzle pointed back at the salesman. As I pick it up, I tilt the muzzle down. In a crowded room, the only safe place to point the gun is up or down, and I prefer down.

The rules of gun safety dictate the every gun be treated as if it were loaded. It should be an automatic response to either pick a gun up without pointing it at anyone, or don't pick it up at all. If a situation prevents you from picking up a gun without pointing it at someone, then simply don't pick it up.

That's mi dos centavos, for whatever it's worth.

Daryl
 
ill add to and agree with that^

after thinking for a day, i guess the most responsible thing for me to do would have been to politely say, excuse me, do you mind taking a step to the side?

lesson learned.
 
OP, unless you haven't told us the entire story, you did absolutely nothing to deserve that type of rude response. Period. If the guy working the counter placed it there for you to handle, and told you to go ahead, then you did not deserve that type of comment. That's the sort of behavior that loses gun sales.

I do what Daryl mentioned. That's what I was going to suggest, and it's probably the best way to handle things (pun indended). But if anyone tells you that you were wrong and that they have never accidentally pointed an unloaded pistol in an inappropriate direction, then either they haven't spent much time in a gun shop, or they're a stranger to the truth. I haven't read the responses carefully enough to see if anyone has made such a statement.

In any case, perhaps the guy was having a bad day. We're all allowed a couple of those each month. :)
 
always treat it as if it were loaded. Its a simple mistake, but i would of picked it up and instantly pointed the barrel downwards. I guess its just safe/ best practice.
Im not saying you were in the wrong at all, heck the sales man knew it was unloaded. I never do buisness at a gun shop that doesnt treat me rite. The ones that treat me rite get ALL of my money.....lol
 
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