Want another 1911

I think Springfield's relationship with Imbel has changed, in the last year or two.
I got a new Range Officer last Summer, and there are no import markings on it. I think Springfield is doing enough of the machining in-house that what they're getting from Imbel no longer qualifies as a gun (not a serialed part).
Springfield has expanded the RO line to include compact "CCO" versions, and there's a rumor that there will soon be a RO Commander (4" barrel, full-length frame).
 
They get their forgings and some work done from Imbel, it depends on the model of firearm.

The GI's were all made more or less by Imbel with the except of a few cuts to the frame, and final finishing. Same goes for the N marked Mil-Spec's, and loadeds. The NM serial numbers on Loadeds, TRP, and Trophy Matches were finished mostly in the US, the forgings from Imbel. The internal cuts were made by Imbel but the rest of the maching and rails were all cut and finished in the US.

Their other models, such as the lightweight operator series have different serial number abbrivations, were all made in the US.

The Springfield Custom shop is owned and operated by Springfield, but they are almost a seperate entity, and all of their firearms are made in the US.

I have owned numerous N and NM marked Springfields, only really had an issue with a N marked Stainless Loaded. The slide stop was fitted too loose and would walk out and sieze the slide while firing. Had the gunsmith at work dimple the flat on the slide release so the detent sat a little deeper in it and cured the problem.

I spoke with our rep on the phone for awhile about the process when I was ordering a Lightweight Champion Operator on my pro staff form a few years back. You can call and speak to them, they are pretty nice and open about how they do buisness.

Personally I would take my NM marked TRP, Trophy Match, and Loaded over a US made Remington R1 or Ruger anyday.
 
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So much misinformation in this thread it really hurts my head.

Springfield owns a forgery in Brazil, and yes the cheaper models are assembeled there, some of the more expensive ones are assembled in the US.
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Imbel is not owned by Springfield.

STI has their cheapest model the Spartan's parts built by Armscor and finish them themselves (actually great guns for the money) Their other models are US produced.
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STI does no work on the Spartans. They spot check batches here in the US but they do not "finish" them here. It is more like they are blessed in TX. I would guess that 99.9% of them receive no fitting or finish by STI. If they did they would not be selling them at the price point they do. This does not make them bad guns it just makes them what they are. Armscor frames and slides with some STI parts assembled in the Philippines on its own assembly line inside of Armscor.

I'm looking for another 1911. I'm stubborn. Make that very stubborn. I only buy and own (all) American made 1911's. As I dig a little, I find there are very few, make that none that I can find, mass produced 1911's made in America. SA frames and slides are made in Brazil. Some STI's are made in the Philippines. Para USA still made in Canada. Smith and Wesson bought out by the Germans. Colt is going foreign/offshore. U.S. Marines are carrying Benelli shotguns. Kimber is hooking up with HK? Winchesters made in Japan. Besides Ruger and Remington are any decent .45 pistols made in the USA??
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Aguila Blanca covered these but I am going to add some additional detail.

Really only one STI is made in the Philippines it is the Spartan. There are 3 different versions of the Spartan coming in 45 ACP and 9mm so yes 6 STI guns are made in the Philippines. All others are made in TX.

Para is now made and serviced in the US in Pineville, NC. They have been for a while now. They are making better guns these days. Still not something I would buy but they have an improving track record.

Colt is not making any 1911s off shore at this time. They have saved themselves with a cash influx for the short term and will be around for a long time IMHO. They are not going anywhere.

Smith and Wesson is a publicly traded company. NASDAQ:SWHC The co-marketing and serving agreement with Walther is over and it last year IIRC. They were never owned or even controlled by Walther.

The GI's were all made more or less by Imbel with the except of a few cuts to the frame, and final finishing. Same goes for the N marked Mil-Spec's, and loadeds. The NM serial numbers on Loadeds, TRP, and Trophy Matches were finished mostly in the US, the forgings from Imbel. The internal cuts were made by Imbel but the rest of the maching and rails were all cut and finished in the US.
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The entire NM or N mark on Springfield 1911s is a point of constant confusion.

Springfield uses the prefixes of "N" and "NM" to designate 1911-A1 type pistols, just as we used "AM" as the prefix for the P9 series of pistols. The only pistols which use the national match frames are the complete custom pistols built through our custom shop. These pistols have "Springfield Custom" etched on the slide, and will have the "NM" prefix to the serial number.

Deb, Custom Shop Coordinator
Springfield Custom
Springfield Inc.
customshop@springfield-armory.com
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NM is used in two ways by SA. One is by the custom shop to mark National Match frames which come out of the custom shop and the the "NM" in the serial number along with the SA custom shop logo.

Then there are the NM serialized guns that do not have a custom shop logo which is believed to designate final finishing in the US vs Brazil. Some believe these to be superior to N marked guns. I am not a big enough SA fan to tell you if that is true or not.
 
To the OP if you are willing to stretch the budget a bit and do not mind an alloy frame I would take a close look at the Dan Wesson Guardian. You can get them for about $1400. You can also find blemish guns for right around $1200.

If you are trying to keep it under $1000 it is hard to beat the Colt XSE. It will hold its value better than most 1911s and will have less MIM and cast parts then most in the sub $1000 category.

If you don't mind cast the Ruger is a decent choice. I think it looks better than it shoots but a lot of people like them.

If you don't mind a bull barrel and the looks of the STI Spartan it is a decent gun. It is not my cup of tea but lots of people like them and the fit and finish is nicer than other Armscor guns but not as nice as other STI guns.

I would pass on a Sig because it has an internal extractor. It is not my preference because it is not a user serviceable part. I do not like S&Ws for the same reason. Of these 2 the S&W has a better longer track record but Sig seems to be making a decent 1911 like gun these days.

If you want to use this gun as a base gun for a custom build down the road I would suggest getting a plain Colt Combat Commander. It will be easier and cheaper to customize later down the road then a XSE.


Good luck.
 
My pick for a commander size 1911 is the STI Ranger 11 series. I have two ,one .45ACP and one 9 MM. Both have performed with out failures of any type. The only mod. is the mainspring housing, I changed them to steel from plastic. Not really required I just like the steel better.
TGR.
 
Then there are the NM serialized guns that do not have a custom shop logo which is believed to designate final finishing in the US vs Brazil. Some believe these to be superior to N marked guns. I am not a big enough SA fan to tell you if that is true or not.
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You can call and ask, but the story I got is N marked guns are almost all built by Imbel with the exception of a few cuts, one being the cut for the grip safety.

NM guns most of the machining is done by Imbel on the frame, but the rails, final fit and finishing and more cuts are made in the US.

Springfield told me 3 years ago when ordering my Lightweight Champion Operator on my pro staff form through work they are making more guns in the US than previous years, because I asked about people spreading rumors everything was made in Brazil.

The reps I shot with last summer at an event seemed to back up that statement as well.
 
You can call and ask, but the story I got is N marked guns are almost all built by Imbel with the exception of a few cuts, one being the cut for the grip safety.

NM guns most of the machining is done by Imbel on the frame, but the rails, final fit and finishing and more cuts are made in the US.

Springfield told me 3 years ago when ordering my Lightweight Champion Operator on my pro staff form through work they are making more guns in the US than previous years, because I asked about people spreading rumors everything was made in Brazil.

The reps I shot with last summer at an event seemed to back up that statement as well.
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To me it does not matter. I have no intention of buying a SA anytime soon and to be honest if it had "N" or "NM" would not matter to me. I would judge the gun in front of me based on its merits no the serial number. ;)
 
While I mostly agree, and I have had cheap RIA 1911's perform great, where as I had Colt's that were miserable lemons, I was just stating that was what was told to me by the people working for their company.

My $1900 STI shoots about the same as my $1000 TRP... as long as they work.. I can care less who's name is stamped on the side anymore.

I bought a used $200 RIA that used to live in my car... thing worked great.:confused:
 
If you are a 357 magnum fan. Coonan makes a nice 1911 it's the only 1911 I have so not much for comparing other models. I took it to the indoor range the other day, starting shooting and noticed everyone behind me wondering "what the ---- I was shooting.
 
While I mostly agree, and I have had cheap RIA 1911's perform great, where as I had Colt's that were miserable lemons, I was just stating that was what was told to me by the people working for their company.

My $1900 STI shoots about the same as my $1000 TRP... as long as they work.. I can care less who's name is stamped on the side anymore.

I bought a used $200 RIA that used to live in my car... thing worked great.
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Did you notice who I quoted when talking about N and NM marked SAs? :eek:

IF you are happy with a $200 RIA who am I to argue with that. For me life is too short to shoot something I don't like. RIAs just don't float my boat but I understand that the represent a decent value at their price point.

I would much rather shoot my LNIB $1200 Les Baer TRS.... ;)
 
The RIA i had for keeping in my car is far from my only 1911, and I have owned Baers and WC's before. They still don't shoot any better than most production made 1911's. Are they nicer? sure. I spent $1900 on my STI because I wanted that specific gun and I love it. Does it make holes in stuff any better than a $1000ish Colt or SA or Kimber... debatable.

I have $3000 AR's that will do the same thing a $900 Colt 6920 does... just because I like them more doesn't mean others do.

Yes I did see where your info came from, as I know that same letter has been posted all over the internet for some time now, its not hard to pull up.
 
Yes I did see where your info came from, as I know that same letter has been posted all over the internet for some time now, its not hard to pull up.
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She posted it on 1911forum.com where she is a member. My point being that the info I posted is directly from SA.
 
If you are a 357 magnum fan. Coonan makes a nice 1911 it's the only 1911 I have so not much for comparing other models. I took it to the indoor range the other day, starting shooting and noticed everyone behind me wondering "what the ---- I was shooting.
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Yeah it is pretty crazy for the muzzle blast. I love my Coonan.
 
My out of the box "new" series 70 Colt from their custom shop was the scary type of unreliable. It went bye-bye. My brand new Remington 1911A1S was a beauty, but jammed no matter what I put through it. It went bye-bye.

My buddy bought new a Springfield G.I. parkerized MILSPEC 1911 with "US" on the grips, and has fired it for several years now. I shoot with him often. He puts any round he wants through his gun, for as long as he want...without any problems while I'm cussing out my "American" 1911s. That thing has NEVER stopped running! When I get over my fear of purchasing another 1911 lemon, Springfield will be my next try. (shudder). I've gotta have steel though.
 
I love my Colt 1911... but my Smith 1911 is honestly probably the nicest gun I own.

And I own sigs, glock, colt, kimber, and others. But I stii think my nicest gun is the Smith
 
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