Walther TPH (.22lr) or NAA Black Widow (.22 Mag)?

Tried it today

I've just been to a gunshop and they had exactly the NAA .22 Magnum posted above. Both my wife and I felt rather uncomfortable fumbling with the hammer. Especially I could'nt squeeze the trigger well because it always came to rest in the gap between the first and second sections of my trigger finger....
So, we'll take a good look at the TPH....
 
If choosing just between the TPH and that revolver. I'd go Walther. The upside to small calibers is the low recoil allows for fast, accurate follow-up shots, with the NAA being SAO, you negate that advantage.

If you're just looking for a really concealable carry gun, I'd have to agree with the folks that have recommended the Kel-Tec P-32. The P32 is a good deal lighter (6.6 oz empty, around 9.4 oz loaded) compared to the TPH (11.5 oz empty). The P32 is also thinner and smaller, and has a 7+1 capacity, compared to the 6+1 of the TPH, not to mention the P32 is chambered for the more potent .32acp. The round is still not a powerhouse but by far better. On top of that, the P32 sells for like half the price of the TPH.

So to sum it up, with the P32, you get a lighter, thinner, smaller, more concealable gun, that has a higher capacity of a more powerful round and for a much lower price.
 
TPH all the way.

I think you have already found one of the main problems with the NAA is that it is small and somewhat difficult to cock and fire. Multiply that factor by 10 under extreme duress/stress.

Also, since this is for the wife, I think in actual practice, she would find it very difficult to hang on to when actually firing. It does have a somewhat larger grip than other NAAs, but its light weight and relatively sharp recoiling cartridge is not for a person that is not very well versed in its use.

My personal experience has been with several NAAs. They are a lot of fun to shoot, but, even with a .22 short model, no matter how hard I tried to hang on to them, they would still "ride up" in my hand and I would have to readjust my hold for each succeeding shot.

The Walther TPH, on the other hand, has a bit more to hang on to, and its operation is almost instinctual in that you need merely pull the trigger. It is also more easily controlled during firing and placing multiple shots in the same area is greatly facilitated.

Of the two you mentioned, your choice is obvious. Not to denigrate the NAA (they are fun), but it is more of a niche/novelty gun, and not for serious, real world self defense for a novice.

Another option, though, might be a Smith & Wesson 640 in .38 Special. It is a "double action only," concealed hammer 2" revolver and would also be a pretty much instinctual gun to shoot.
 
Para Bellum, I have gone completely away from automatics in favor of revolvers. The TPH's were replaced by S&W 317 airlites. While not as small as the TPH, they are small and light enough for almost any occasion. I feel a lot better now with a revolver in rimfire, but not a mini-revolver for reasons you have already discovered. The TPH is a good little gun, but over the years I have just come to prefer double action revolvers.
 
Kel-Tec P32 or, much better, Kel-Tec P3AT. It's the same size as the .32 but the .380 kicks some rear for such a small gun. A bit flippy on recoil, but really fairly mild. Any gun that small requires getting used to the small grip and the Kelties require a little cosmetic smoothing, but mine goes bang every time I push the button. Just another alternative. A 22LR is far better than a sharp stick and a .32 is better and a .380 is better than that.

JMNSHO &, of course, YMMV
 
I said the 32 keltec as my wife found my 380 KT to much recoil in this small pistol. Remember women are different . She loves her 32 loaded with Corbon HP but hates my 380 no matter what I load it with So I have 380 and she has 32 every one happy :D
 
Folks, thank you for your time and thoughts!

I'll check the Kel-Tecs out. Problem: Not common here in Austria, hard to find...
My wife already has a Glock 26, so anything bigger than the TPH wouldn't really make sense, I'm afraid...

Tomorrow we'll try the TPH...
 
One thing to look out for with the TPH, and I know this from having owned a US-made variation of the TPH, it is prone to biting. That's another upside to the Kel-Tec, the gun was very clearly designed to prevent it from happening, you get a lot more clearance between the slide and the webbing between the thumb and trigger finger.
 
One of my favorite "fun guns". :D Good luck in your hunt for one of the classic Walthers.

tph25019.jpg
 
I'll add one more to the pot. NAA makes a .32ACP Gurardian, which is a double action all stainless semi automatic. It is much smaller than a Glock 26 and would only weigh a couple more ounces. But in my opinion 6+1 of .32ACP is far greater than 6+1 of .22LR or .25ACP. It is blowback so it will kick a bit harder than the Keltec, but not much more than a G26 I would imagine.

I think the Walthers are sharp looking little buggers, but it has been my experience that small .22LR autos have extraction issues, especially with the cheap ammo. I have only found CCI Stingers to be reliable in a lot of these small platforms. So if you do go with the Walther give that ammo a shot if you can get your hands on it and have her practice mag dump drills to test the feeding and also since that is probably how a .22LR will be employed (which you cannot do with the mini revolvers).

The Seecamp, Guardian or Keltec would be my first recommendation, especially if this is going to be her primary carry and not a backup gun (I didn't catch it if you mentioned that).

The mini revolvers will not jump out of your hand if you put rubber grips or oversized grips on them, which I have done (rubber) with both of mine (.22LR model and .22WMR). The rubber grips allow you to hold onto the small gripping area just fine especially since the rounds are such light cartridges. The little mini revolvers make ok backups, or snake guns loaded with shot, but other than that they are a curiosity and should not be used as a primary defense in my opinion.

As others, I would recommend the .25ACP over .22LR, especially if this is to be a primary carry. The semi-rimmed cartridge extracts more reliably, centerfire ignites more reliably and as stated above FMJ is decent for penetration as well as having a slightly larger bullet (50 grains usually).

If you go .22LR or .25ACP I would recommend FMJ however, not just because of penetration, but due to loss of mass in such small rounds (shedding as well as fpe on target).

Good luck with it whatever you decide and know this: Pictures are mandatory! We will all want to see what you decided on. :)
 
I really don't know enough about the THP, to make
a comment on it.

I do know the Black Widow, is hard to hold onto and
not the easiest gun to find the target with..its more
of a up close and personal.. last ditch gun.

For a small ccw I still think the Kel Tecs beat both
of these. Try out a few if you can before buying.
 
Ruger LCP?

Folks, I have a problem: I can't find a Kel-Tec Dealer in Austria. Even Kel-Tec wrote me this the other day:

As we only sell to distributors (the middle guy), we do not have any dealer info.
Distributor information is only available to licensed dealers.
Sorry.
we do not do any exporting, sorry
Click to expand...

:confused:

But, there is hope: We have a Ruger-Importeur in Austria and the Ruger LCP could also be an answer, what do you think?It is very small and a .308 auto even...

http://www.ruger.com/products/lcp/index.html?r=y

ruger_lcp_380.jpg
 
...or NOT! This is what Wikipedia says about the Ruger LCP:

On October 29, 2008, Sturm, Ruger & Co., Inc. announced a recall of some of the LCP pistols due to the possibility of some of the guns discharging if dropped onto a hard surface.[6] The recall announcement stated that Ruger would upgrade the hammer system, make other unspecified improvements, and compensate the owner by providing an additional magazine with in-built grip extension.
Click to expand...

:barf:
 
Your two choices seem idiosyncratic. If I had any option, though, I'd never go with an NAA mini-revolver in any caliber. There are simply too many far better options. An all-steel .22 LR automatic is not one that would really jump out at me, but it's one.
 
Idiosyncrasy, from Ancient Greek ἰδιοσυγκρασία, idiosyngkrasía, "a peculiar temperament", "habit of body" (ἴδιος, idios "one's own", σύν, syn "with" and κρᾶσις krasis "mixture") is defined as an individualizing quality or characteristic of a person or group, and is often used to express eccentricity or peculiarity. The term can also be applied to symbols. Idiosyncratic symbols mean one thing for a particular person, as a blade could mean war, but to someone else, it could symbolize a surgery. By the same principle, linguists state[who?] that words are not only arbitrary, but also largely idiosyncratic signs.
Click to expand...
(Wikipedia)

Ok, Lighning Joe, what would you pick in that size, if even a Glock 26 is too large...
 
The Ruger would be a good choice and if not the Walther. As for the Kel-tec, I carried one for years, P32. While teaching my wife how to shoot it the trigger axis broke allowing the trigger to free-swing. Wife wasn't too impressed. I fixed it the the KTOG board was great as was customer service, the gun was tarnished in my opinion. I had an old Colt 25acp (heirloom) and ended up buying a Beretta Jetfire (25acp)as an all-the-time gun and a replacement for the Kel-tec.

A previous thread showed two TPH beauties. I would get one of those.
 
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