Walther P5

WR, we've heard this hogwash in at least a half a dozen threads.

Why is it that you are the only one here that has experienced all of the allegedly negative aspects of the P.38 family of pistols?

I've been collecting, working on, and firing this pistol for over 10 years, we have a former member of the German Army who has extensive experience with this pistol, and a dozen others who have never had a problem with a P.38, P.38K, P.38SD, P.38L, P1, P4, P5, P5C in all their years of association with the Walther family of P.38's

Have you talked this over with Rankin, Dieter, Hoffschmidt, Kirsten,
Raum, Buxton, or any other collectors lately? What are their opinions?
 
I was trying to show some of the reasons why Walther came out with the P5. It was to correct the design defects of the P38.
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Actually, the P5 was designed to meet the requirements of the German Police Pistol Trials of the late 70s which NOT to correct P38 "design defects."
 
juliet charley is right on the money with that one.

The P5 was one of the "triumvirate" of 9mm sigle stack service pistols which were submitted by their makers for the German police trials. The other two were the HK P7PSP and the SIG P225. (Those trials blessed us with three of the finest 9mm single stack pistols ever made.)

The pistols were all new designs, as they had to conform to specifications that were drafted by the German Police, with specific requirements in regards to dimensions, capacity, loaded weight and caliber. The P1 simply did not meet several of the trial requirements to be eligible for submission, so Walther designed a "next-generation" P1 and took the opportunity to incorporate several design improvements they had been tossing around in the 30-odd years since the invention of the P38. None of those had to do with "deficiencies" of the Walther P38.

Wild Romaine, I ask you again publically to provide evidence as to the alleged slide failures or battered frames on the P1 series of pistols. I am not asking this because I want to get into a whizzing contest with you, I merely want to see some evidence to support an assertion that goes contrary to my own experience and that of literally dozens of very experienced shooters on this board and in my circle of acquaintances. As someone once said, "Ourageous claims require outrageous proof."

I'll happily check any documentation, pictures or publically available records you care to share here, and if you prove me wrong I will concede the matter on the spot. Until you do, and as long as all the evidence you can provide are wild anecdotes of you and your buddies' experiences, I'll give as much credit to your observations as I give to sightings of the Loch Ness monster.
 
Walther P1s really had a problem with cracked frames. This problem did not reveal itself until the police practiced more with the gun during the surge of terrorism.

The West German Army never stressed on pistol practice. I spent several years in the reserve and had the opportunity to shoot dozens of P1s in army practice and competitions.
I heard about the problems of the frames and it was addressed by the hexagonal pin through the frame but never witnessed a cracked frame myself.
There were usually five handguns for around forty shooters on the army range who shoot three trial shots and five to qualify. I usually took advantage of the free ammo and repeated the practice as much as I could. So did most other soldiers.
We always finished the case to facilitate "bookkeeping".
What I am aiming at is that each gun was shot over one hundred rounds, closer to two hundred at each session.

W.R. I cannot recall a serious failure of the P1 during that time.
 
Actually, the P5 was designed to meet the requirements of the German Police Pistol Trials of the late 70s which NOT to correct P38 "design defects."
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Your partially right on this one. Walther did indeed want a police contract and they were well aware that the P38 P1 and even the P4 series of pistols would not win the contract. They needed a better pistol. One that would be competitive with the newer models that were in competition with it. Walther knew that with all of the problems that the P38 had it would not stand a chance against the newer pistol designs. This is why they developed the P5. They had given up trying to fix the P38.and all of its problems.
 
PzGren
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PzGren
Member

Registered: 08-14-2001
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Posts: 28
Walther P1s really had a problem with cracked frames. This problem did not reveal itself until the police practiced more with the gun during the surge of terrorism.

Thank you very much for your reply. Thank God someone else beside myself is familiar with the history of this Pistol. I was beginning to think I was a voice crying out alone in the wilderness. W.R.
 
I've been reading this sting since it started and haven't wanted to get into this, but last night I finally found one of my Walther books. (I just moved into a new house). Anyway the book is "The Walther Handgun Story" by Gene Gangarosa. This book covers all Walther handgun models. I believe Gene also wrote a P.38 book. Anyway in the P.38 section it talks about how the P.38 went to an aluminum frame AFTER THE WAR. These first showed up around 1957. Also the firing pin was changed on postwar P.38's which "were easier to produce and makes accidental discharge of the pistol even less likely" In 1968 a major redisign of the slide took place. The slide was built up in the area where the slide meets the barrel rails. "This change makes it difficult for mud, sand and other foreign matter to find their way into the pistols inner workings." In 1975 the hexagonal pin first appeared on the P4 derivative. "This pin added strength to the aluminum frame at a critical stress point".

So my take on all of this is that the P.38 may have had some problems from 1968 to 1975 when they beefed up the slide. Thus the hexagonal pin came into play to correct this. Otherwise I have read no where, at least in this book, where the P.38 "blew its top off" and I would assume that the all steel made P.38's of the War were very robust guns. The P1's may indeed have had a problem due to the increase in weight of the slide. But to say a P.38 is a bad design is stretching it.

P99
 
WR -

Go back and do your research. The P38/P1 did not meet the specifications for the German Police Trials. Again, it was NOT due to any "problems" with the P348/P1.
 
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Wild Romanian,
did you ever see the Pflichtenheft that regulated the new pistol??!!!!
You did not, I am sure. The P220 got chopped down to the P225 to make the dimensions right that some idiotical politicians came up with that never fired a gun in their lives. The gun had to be smaller than the P4 was or could have been.
This would have only further crippled the P1 further to fit it in. The alloy frame , to make it more carriable, already was crippling it. Again, this was done as a requirement by people who have not even heard a gun shot from close by.

Amazingly enough, of the semi autos developped during that time, only the Walther PP, P38, Browning HP, and the venerable 1911 A1 are still popular.
 
Any of you ever read J.B. Wood's book "Trouble Shooting Your Handgun". I read this book many years ago and long before I and many of my collector friends had ever purchased some of the pistols that are covered in his book. In every case we found that what he said was true. As a matter of fact he was rather kind toward some of the pistols he critiqued. We found some of them far worse in design than we could have imagined.

By the way he covers the P38 pistol in his book. W.R.
 
P99: I too have this book. It does have quite a lot of useful information in it. But I was very disappointed in Gene's book. He acted more like a cheer leader for the Walther p38 than an educated historian. I expected him not only to point out the history and positive aspects of the pistol but also the problems and design faults of the pistol.

Some of his statements about the pistol were not even accurate. He stated that the P38 was a very accurate pistol. One of the early criticisms of the P38 was its lack of accuracy compared to other military pistols like the Luger and High Power. War Time models tended to be very inaccurate. Commercial models were of course much, much better but none of the P38's or P1's that I have owned or shot had the accuracy of a Luger or High Power.

Gangarossa does not mention the problem with the top covers or the extractors either. I am sure that he was aware of them if he has the knoledge he claims he has in regards to the P38. I may be in error but I do not recall him mentioning General Isenhower's order in WW11 that forbade U.S. military personal from even using P38's because of the defective safeties that some of them had and the resuling accidents with them by U.S, military personnel.

All of this points to a less than professional book on the P38 pistol. I do not mean to dissuade anyone from reading or buying this book. It does have a lot of educational material in it. But be aware that is was not written as a critic on the P38 pistol so it falls far short of being a classic book on the P38. W.R.
 
WR, I agree with you about Gangarosa's books. There are some errors in his information and some omissions. His research is not complete and it sounds almost like a magazine gun review in many chapters of the "P.38 Automatic Pistol" and "The Walther Handgun Story".

That is why I did not mention him in my last post when I refered to several collectors and experts on the P.38.

I don't doubt that you've experienced problems with the P.38 or you would not keep expounding on it. I just think that the majority of the P.38's available, past and present, have never given the owner or user, in the case of the German Military, any problems.

It seems you've really had some bad experiences with this design, and that is unfortunate, however I will still stand behind the design, war-time and postwar.

Regards,

Michael
 
Gotta correct myself

:o

If the action bar were to break, the cocked hammer would not fall as there would be no force the pull the sear out of engagement.
 
WR, you suer got a way of spicing up a thread.

At any rate, does anybody know what a used Walther P5 in decent shape goes for these days? It seems like a cool pistol, but I think that a new one will be out of my range. Are mags easily accessible?

Thanks,

Mike P. Wagner
 
Mike -

Between $600 and $700 (probably closer to $600). They can be a little difficult to find. You can order new Walther mags from Earl's Repair at $80 a pop. I have seen not other source for P5 mags. It is not a firearm for the faint of heart (or light of wallet).
 
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