Walker Colt and Load Variations.

Old Dragoon I normally shoot FFFg Goex...but FFg or Elephant are fine too..I just don't shoot anything but "Holy Black" yes I am a true Darksider a Lord of Darkness. Some call me a Traditionalist, jus' cause I like to do it just how it was done. Haven't Lost any body parts, blown up any Revs, buldged any barrels, or loosened any arbors. So I figure I'll keep doin' what I been doin' for 20 some years.
Oh and I'll bring as many as you want
ifin you help clean what ya shoot...LoL!
:cool:
 
Granted that I am only semi-skilled with a caliper but I believe that the measurements Dixie quotes are a bit off. I don't do much bench grouping but when I do....
454bench.JPG


dragbuffswiss.jpg


and even off the bench some times
pyrodexp.jpg
 
SG,
Y'ALL can believe this or don't I have never fired a BP weapon without real BP.
I 'member back when all the synthethics came about, was offered a pound tin of Pyrodex or some such. turned it down cause I was setting on 50 Lbs of Dupont, 25 each 3f and 2f.

Now I have shot/will shoot smokeless in my '58 conversion, but didn't like the unburnt powder thing. Just shredded the target at 15 yards indoors. I will work on the load. These were purchased loaded with 5 grn.s Unique, no filler. I think that the fact that there was no filler (dacron fiber is my choice) is maybe one reason
for the unburnt powder. I use just enough filler to make sure the powder isconcentrated at the bottom of the case near the primer. Just a wisp.
I load 44 mags the same way.
 
I might one day try a substitute...I tried Pyrodex it gets just as dirty and smells worse tha Holy Black, it's squishy and not as consistant as BP from my tests. Has no flame to speak of I didn't see one, no snap to it. I just like BP better its always worked great and never had trouble with a volumetric load, in accuracy or safety. I won't use Unique or even 777 I am a traditionalits like I told you. And it really ain't safe...Loose a finger or an eye using BP with a Pietta they will probably make it right with you plus a new gun or two, along with your insurance company covering you...Have that happen using anything other than BP in a gun that clearly states "BLACK POWDER ONLY" guess what you may be on your own. Jus' a couple of my reasons and besides I have more fun using Black Powder. I have done more than my share of live cartridge fire, and alot of reloading to include lets say inconspicuos long range objectives.
I can relax pour BP into a brass case press or tap a bullet down an tis ready to go. But Like I said that's just me. I fully undrstand the fun of ballistic science and applaud and read all of it. I just like to shoot alot:cool:
 
SG,
Gotcha on that. That's one reason I wanted to use the "Real" 44 Rem Conv. Load. in preference to the 45LC, Got nothing agin the 45LC I just wanted my conversion to be correct for the first Rem Conversions.(44 CF, 44 RF and 46RF) Rem also loaded this same cartridge for Colts.

The smokeless 44 Rem were purchased. I bought 2 boxes of them. I pulled one box and reloaded with 30 Grn' FFG. I just didn't care for all the unburnt powder. Cleaner? Yes, but there sure is somehting about the same cartridge loaded with BP.

One thing I noticed with the conversion cylinder, is that after 10 or so shots it didn't want to turn...I remembered something someone told me about spit being a good BP cleaner. I popped the cylinder out spit on both ends and the recoil ring, the cylinder pin, reloaded and shot 10 more. Probably should have swabed the bore too but I didn't.

I just got my 44 Rem. reload order from Old West tonight. so I'll be loading up some 44 Rem. this week.
 
Old Dragoon...just keep a little contain of oil in your pocket like those you get with an air drill or grinder. I use Bore Butter on the pins mostly, and inside I use olive oil...I don't have any problems...dry i get 1 cyl. and the Pateron starts bindin, bore butter and a wipe off every time it reload...no problem. Rems, I lube pin with BB and use lube pills and can shoot all day and I have 3 cylinder. Pin pulls out fine it don't stick. Colts lube arbor reload 3 times pull the Cyl. wipe off soft fouling (soft from bore butter) thin coat of BB keep shootin...lube lills keep barrel clean/soft, season bbl/lube it. Maintains better/more consistant accuracy. That target I showed the last group over the X . Those were my last shots of the day about 40 rounds C&B and 25 cartridge type. Was still on the money. I swear by T/C Natural Lube 1000 Bore Butter.


I can't wait to see that .44 -40 conversion... load up a bunch ok? LoL!
 
SG,
My conversion is 44 Rem. I can't do 40 grns in 44 mag cases...just 38 grn. but with the .248 grn bullet they stick out the mouth of the chamber. The 44 Colt cases get 30 grns., the 44 S&W spl. case can load 35 grns.
The original 44 Rem load in the 44 Colt case was between 28 and 30 grns., not sure what it was. but the 44 Rem in the colt case is pretty formidable looking and it is big and slow. The only way I can use 44 mag cases is when I convert the BP cylinder to Cartridge the added of that cylinder allows the use of that length case that particular bullet. Old west makes 3 lighter heeled bullets for the 44 Rem. that are shorter. A 165 grn.,210 Grn and a .215 Grn. All are .451 Dia X.429 Dia heel.
When I ordered my 44 Rem. crimp die I had it made to accomodate 44 Colt, 44 spl, and 44 mag cases.

That being said, it is neat to shoot an original load for the 44 Rem conversions (discontinued in 1895) and the 44 Rem 1875 Rem. They look great in the belt of my rig too. I really want to work the load for this cartridge to be as accurate as possible. Heeled bullets are hard to get accuracy with, so more grns may not be the way to go. There was some loading data that came with my order that stated 28 grns. Goex FFG gives 620 FPS

I had Old West print up some of their 44 Rem. labels to go on the Cheyenne cartridge boxes. The 44 WCF boxes are a great fit for the 44 Rem load. I now have Original type labels for the sides, ends and tops for ten cartridge boxes. They look pretty cool too.
 
Mec,

A couple posts back you said the ASM Walker had, I think, "quite a few " problems. Is this from any particular date, like in 1987 they went to "bottom line" instead of quality control?

Regardless, the Gun Works has all parts in stock. They could, I think, be made good.

What is the value of an ASM Walker in "good" condition? I ask because I have seen a couple for what "might" be reasonable prices. What is "too high" to pay? 200, 250, 300?

Heck, I haven't looked, wasn't that interested, what is the going rate for a "new" Walker?

Haven't got your book. My B&N didn't have it in stock last night (Mon).

The pic where you are shooting APP powder, was it taken after the smoke cleared? My last shoot, APP makes tons of smoke that smells bad, 777 makes less smoke, but it doesn't smell as bad. APP doesn't smell like BP, it just stinks like "What the heck is burning?"

Also, how about an 1863 Rem, by Pietta, 31 cal., brass frame, spur trigger, for some of those who are looking for a "pocket pistol"? What are they worth, "listed" at 215, price is now at 135, 9 units at Dutch style, 6 bucks shipping. Hey, it's a little pistol, weighs less. I know they're brass, don't know if there was an original brass model, but still Pietta, mebbe from before they cleaned up their act, as RK says they did when they went to new machinery.

Questions, questions, questions. If you don't know, ask the man who wrote the book.:) :)

Cheers,

George
 
No experience with the small pietta. I also don't know the fulsome history of ASM. They were making some very pretty, lightly sprung Single Action Army clones a few years ago and that is about the time they went broke. the Dragoon Bates has is at least ten years old - he had to do a lot of work to get it shooting. Others have similar complaints to the one''s I outlined,- unfitted parts and peculiar dimensions. I do not keep up with current prices on the guns but I do know that the current Piettas and Ubertis of various types can be had from just over two hundred to a bit under 300 for the walkers and dragoons - from a number of sources.

As to the book. it is a limited interest subject and not a product of the usual industry sources that produce books on the subject. You will not find it in a book store. Your bookstore can order it and it is available online from B&N, Amazon, Hastings and several smaller dealers.

In compiling the book, I made or attempted contacts with a number of sources. I found several reliable sources for Uberti parts and service, far fewer from Pietta and very little in the way of useful or helpful information from the company- though a couple of their guns did perform very well. Palmetto would not even answer correspondence. Some people have had luck fitting Pietta action parts gotten from VTI gunparts to their ASM revolvers. Bates fitted some generic parts to his- no indication of where they came from but very likely Dixie.
 
Mec, Cabels sells a replacement parts kit for the guns they sell but they don't advertise it. I found this out when I called them years ago and ask to talk to someone about there BP revolvers. They put me in touch with a guy at Cabelas who was very helpfull at the time and he gave me the order number . A parts kit for a 1858 Remington .44 was about $18.00 and included all the springs , hammer and trigger and all the internal parts . There was no screws with the kit . Anyway. MP1423 just orderd the kit for his Remington the other day from Cabelas with the number I gave him and the price is still just under $18.00.
The hammer alone on some of these parts places cost much more than that.The two Remingtons I bought from them are both Piettas and I have had no problems at all. Just smoothed up the action and a little polishing here and there and they are really great well fitted revolvers.
 
Uberti USA provides service for the Ubertis imported by them- this means all of them for the last several years. Three years ago, I asked them about parts/service for a 14 year old Paterson- the answer, " Call Cabelas" I did so and was told that they didn't know if they had any parts for the gun or not. A local distributor here, L.M.Burney Company told me that Cabelas has a vast number of products including parts but that the number were so huge, Cabelas usually couldn't find anything in their warehouses. A few years ago, an individual was doing a comprehensive search for Pietta-LeMat Parts. He detailed a number of contacts with the parts man at Cabelas and the final outcome was that they gave up. About that time, I had a Pietta Lemat from Navy Arms Company and put in an order for a selection of spare parts. After a year, the order expired and was renewied. The Navy Arms man told me that in that period of time, Pietta did not ship a single revolver part. Subsequently, VTI GunParts came into being or made arrangements with Pietta. They never did get a domestic supply of parts but did successfully order a comprehensive selection for me from Italy-and told me they could do so again. Taylor Inc. lists LeMat Parts and Pietta Starr Parts online. I ordered a number of action parts for the LeMat and did receive them after 2 months. The time frame is typical of a successful back-order from Italy. Less successful back orders can run into the years or will never be filled if it the manufacturer regards it as too much trouble to fill.

I am hearing from a number of happy Pietta Customers. I recently tested one of the Smith breach -loading carbines they sell through Dixie Gun Works and others. It was flawless in all respects- a very high quality piece of work with outstanding metal work, case hardening and blue. Dixie even lists a good selection of parts for them. Other sutlers find the carbines very hard to get.

Bates, older stainless 58 remington comes from Pietta. He had to open the frame in the back and deal with a shallow- bored nipple channel to get it to function but it is extremely accurate and he has never had to replace a single part. I've had two of their lemats and found them very accurate. There are some problems with the design- but this is endemic in the LeMat design rather than the execution by Pietta. One disturbing factor I encounted was the seeming disinterest or lack of knowledge by one of the Pietta respondents in regard to parts availability and customer service. He provided inaccurate information about the availability of LeMat parts and refused to respond in regard to customer service.
 
LOL, Your right about Piettas customer relations. It's almost non existent. I did see a parts list somwhere on the net for Pietta parts and it looked great. The list and pictures included every part of the gun, Fram, barrel and all. If I se it again I'll see that you get the link.
 
Check out Taylors- very comprehensive list. Some are probably in-house and others available by back-order. Taylor has schematics for all of them including the Starr Revolver by Pietta. The Starr single and double actions became available with great fan-fare a few years ago but customers complained about ignition failures. At first they blaimed a weak mainspring but later found that the nipples were too far from the hammer. A few people made them shoot by making spacers to bring the nipples out farther. One guy, who posed here or on thehighroad, wanted a project and ordered one of these. He had to shim the nipples and,since basic parts were not readily available, he figured out what size flat spring wire to order from Brownelles for occasional replacement of the trigger/bolt and hand springs.
I have the impression that VTI will not picture and list parts unless they can count on having them in stock - but they do encourage people to call about other parts they might need ordered from europe.

Note the following on Numrich Gunparts
http://www.e-gunparts.com/products.asp?chrMasterModel=7020z1860 COLT ARMY&MC=
The parts of the Pietta 1860 army with asterics are all "sold out" They have been listed sold out for the past three years.
The Pietta 58 Remington has no parts listed at all except for a couple of Kartridge Konverters

Now see the GunParts list for the Uberti 1860 army and 58 Remington:
No parts listed as unavailable
http://www.e-gunparts.com/productschem.asp?chrMasterModel=4180z1860 ARMY

http://www.e-gunparts.com/productschem.asp?chrMasterModel=4180z1858 NEW ARMY AND NAVY

You can find generic parts at Brownelles including a parts package for the colt army and Navy in a Pietta package.
 
Mec,

Thanks for your reply. Question is moot, now, had found one at 225, it didn't get a bid, and has expired. Didn't want to overpay, don't know if I really want one, anyhow.

There was some interest in the 63, I think, .31 cal Rem. If anybody is interested, will post the page, all, supposedly NIB. But, brass, and I can't find a brass model in my book.

Ah, well,

Cheers,

George
 
Armi San Marcos Parts

Here's a good site for ASM parts...also this place, but you have to call and ask they have no site, but a large selection of ASM parts...

http://www.thegunworks.com/
clk custom & production guns/CVA/Revolver Parts they have some ASM by CVA parts.
_________________________________________________________________

Armi San Marcos Parts

Deer Creek Products
6989 E Michigan Rd
Waldron, IN 46182
(765) 525-6181

P.O. box 246
6989 E. Michigan Rd.
Waldron, IN 46182
 
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