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VP9 and ammo
- Thread starter odugrad
- Start date
I can confirm that it will not eat anything. It will not eat the following: 40SW, 357SIG, 45ACP, nor 50 AE.
In seriousness, sometimes HKs can be picky with steel cased ammo or more generally ammo that is very underpowered (which coincidentally is often steel cased ammo). My VP9 worked right out of the box with Winchester White Box, which is typically pretty low on the spectrum and pretty affordable. I would say if you were talking about brass cased ammo I likely don't foresee any issues (though one of my P30s had notably weak ejection in the beginning).
In seriousness, sometimes HKs can be picky with steel cased ammo or more generally ammo that is very underpowered (which coincidentally is often steel cased ammo). My VP9 worked right out of the box with Winchester White Box, which is typically pretty low on the spectrum and pretty affordable. I would say if you were talking about brass cased ammo I likely don't foresee any issues (though one of my P30s had notably weak ejection in the beginning).
That's good news. I'll primarily be shooting cheap, brass-cased 115 grain ammo. WWB, PMC, American Eagle, Blazer, etc.
I really don't want to sell the M11, but can't justify the new purchase if I don't.
Anyone else have this problem? Do you think the VP9 is worth the loss of the M11?
I really don't want to sell the M11, but can't justify the new purchase if I don't.
Anyone else have this problem? Do you think the VP9 is worth the loss of the M11?
sigarms228
New member
That's good news. I'll primarily be shooting cheap, brass-cased 115 grain ammo. WWB, PMC, American Eagle, Blazer, etc.
I really don't want to sell the M11, but can't justify the new purchase if I don't.
Anyone else have this problem? Do you think the VP9 is worth the loss of the M11?
I have not had an issue with mine yet using Federal American Eagle, Brass Blazer, PMC, or Speer Lawman. I avoid WWB these days as that is that is the one brass cased ammo that I hear the most problems with though many use it fine. I always find other ammo at better prices anyhow.
Pretty every one that owns a SIG M11A loves them and it sounds like you do to. IMHO if you really like it that much don't sell it as you will regret it. Wait until you can save up for a VP9 or at least try a VP9 first to make sure you will like it at least as much.
carguychris
New member
Just as an aside, as discussed in THIS THREAD, the VP9 manual implicitly recommends against using ammo that's loaded in accordance with industry standards other than SAAMI and NATO.
This effectively excludes most European (PPU, Geco, S&B, Fiocchi, etc.) and Mexican Aguila-brand ammo, which is loaded to CIP standards, and Russian ammo, which is loaded to standards I can't decipher; Tula and Barnaul boxes bear a diamond logo with the Cyrillic characters ГИС inside, but I have no idea what this means.
Given my experience with other 9mm pistols, I can't imagine that any of this ammo is outright unsafe to fire in a VP9, but it's worth considering from a warranty and factory service standpoint.
This effectively excludes most European (PPU, Geco, S&B, Fiocchi, etc.) and Mexican Aguila-brand ammo, which is loaded to CIP standards, and Russian ammo, which is loaded to standards I can't decipher; Tula and Barnaul boxes bear a diamond logo with the Cyrillic characters ГИС inside, but I have no idea what this means.
Given my experience with other 9mm pistols, I can't imagine that any of this ammo is outright unsafe to fire in a VP9, but it's worth considering from a warranty and factory service standpoint.
In addition to being underpowered, it's my experience that Russian steel-case ammo often has very hard primers that may cause ignition problems. I've yet to fire a VP9, much less feed one Russian ammo, but I've observed that Tula is the ONLY brand that has ever failed to go BANG! on the first try in my S&W M&P.TunnelRat said:...sometimes HKs can be picky with steel cased ammo or more generally ammo that is very underpowered (which coincidentally is often steel cased ammo).
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odugrad wrote:
I really don't want to sell the M11, but can't justify the new purchase if I don't.
Anyone else have this problem? Do you think the VP9 is worth the loss of the M11?
It's a question only each person can answer for themselves. Both are very good models that have different manual of arms. It'll come down to which one you prefer the best. I think sigarms228 gave some pretty sound advise in trying the VP-9 a few times before selling anything.
This effectively excludes most European (PPU, Geco, S&B, Fiocchi, etc.) and Mexican (Aguila) ammo, which is loaded to CIP standards, and Russian ammo, which is loaded to standards I can't decipher; Tula and Barnaul boxes bear a diamond logo with the Cyrillic characters ГИС inside, but I have no idea what this means.
Newer VP9s come with CIP over N proofmark as opposed to the eagle over N proofmark of days past. This is actually true of other European pistols now too as part of an agreement for those countries following the CIP specifications. VP9s are made originally to CIP specs and are even engraved CIP right on the slide. Look below the ejection port to the right of the serial number:
http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/ambidextrous-slide-release1.jpg
Nothing in the manual, page 14, forbids the use of CIP ammunition. In fact HK even lists a number you can call them at to ask further questions about ammunition. My guess on why it wasn't included is that the manuals are likely market specific and somone decided CIP spec ammo isn't seen noticeably enough to warrant it's mention in the USA. If you're still concerned, call HK.
http://hk-usa.com/wp-content/uploads/VP9-Operators-Manual-08122014.pdf
softmentor
New member
as with all H&K models, they do not recommend all lead bullets with the polygonal rifling bore, but rather something jacketed. Beyond that, pretty much anything.
tahunua001
New member
personal experience is that if you really like it, then don't get rid of it. whatever you get in return will never live up to your expectations no matter how much you love it. I've even had trade remorse on guns I flat out hated, but it doesn't last as long.
I understand seeking affirmation form others on a model you have your eye on. Even with the possibility of the XDm on the chopping block, I'd still follow sigarms228's advise. I would also try to shoot your two along side any VP-9 you try. If you decide you'd rather have one over one of your other models, then make the move.
I've shot a few VP-9's and they all have been nice shooting guns. Accuracy was not what I would I would call exceptional but, very good and well above average. Like the P-30 it has a great grip and the awesome magazine release paddles. My newphew in law just ordered a VP-9 with night sights and three magazines. He should see it sometime this week. We'll likely do some shooting comparisons to my 9mm's and his own 226 in .40. He's not shot a VP-9 to date. Should be fun.
I've shot a few VP-9's and they all have been nice shooting guns. Accuracy was not what I would I would call exceptional but, very good and well above average. Like the P-30 it has a great grip and the awesome magazine release paddles. My newphew in law just ordered a VP-9 with night sights and three magazines. He should see it sometime this week. We'll likely do some shooting comparisons to my 9mm's and his own 226 in .40. He's not shot a VP-9 to date. Should be fun.
Jim Watson
New member
Do not trade a gun that you know works for a gun that you hope works.
If you can afford one gun (or two) you can afford another, for a while at least.
If you can afford one gun (or two) you can afford another, for a while at least.
buckhorn_cortez
New member
I have a VP9, P30, SIG P229, and XDm 5.25 in 9mm. The VP9 is the most impressive pistol of the group. It runs every type of ammunition I've tried - including one brand that the SIG choked on repeatedly.
The trigger is the best part of the gun, and only the XDm I have is better as it has a trigger kit and trigger work from Springer Precision. The VP9 is great pistol.
You do understand that with the SIG you have a pistol with a decocker that runs DA for the first shot - which is totally different than the VP9 which only has a long trigger pull as the safety.
If you carry the gun, you have to feel comfortable with the safety system. If you only use the gun for recreational purposes, then the safety system and trigger "feel" are less of an issue.
Your M11-A1 is a classic semi-auto pistol, and if you can shoot the DA/SA trigger - I would not sell or trade the gun for the VP9.
If you don't like the DA/SA trigger, then I would look at a VP9, but I would suggest you should not sell or trade the SIG without trying the VP9 first (even dry firing it) to see if you like the trigger system.
The trigger is the best part of the gun, and only the XDm I have is better as it has a trigger kit and trigger work from Springer Precision. The VP9 is great pistol.
You do understand that with the SIG you have a pistol with a decocker that runs DA for the first shot - which is totally different than the VP9 which only has a long trigger pull as the safety.
If you carry the gun, you have to feel comfortable with the safety system. If you only use the gun for recreational purposes, then the safety system and trigger "feel" are less of an issue.
Your M11-A1 is a classic semi-auto pistol, and if you can shoot the DA/SA trigger - I would not sell or trade the gun for the VP9.
If you don't like the DA/SA trigger, then I would look at a VP9, but I would suggest you should not sell or trade the SIG without trying the VP9 first (even dry firing it) to see if you like the trigger system.
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carguychris
New member
True, and logic would dictate that a pistol made in Europe to CIP specifications would be able to digest CIP ammo without issue. I can't imagine that it could realistically cause anything worse that what would occur with NATO or 9mm+P; although the load specs are an apples-to-oranges comparison, these loads can be pretty stout (for an oft-cited example, Google "Canadian 9mm NATO").TunnelRat said:Newer VP9s come with CIP over N proofmark as opposed to the eagle over N proofmark of days past. This is actually true of other European pistols now too as part of an agreement for those countries following the CIP specifications. VP9s are made originally to CIP specs and are even engraved CIP right on the slide.
It's true that there is no explicit prohibition, but my assertion is that Page 14 does not endorse the use of CIP ammo.TunnelRat said:Nothing in the manual, page 14, forbids the use of CIP ammunition.
I agree, but all of the brands of CIP ammo I mentioned in my prior post are commonly stocked at my local big-box sporting goods discounters, and I think it's a significant oversight not to endorse them if they are in fact safe to fire.TunnelRat said:My guess on why [CIP] wasn't included is that the manuals are likely market specific and somone decided CIP spec ammo isn't seen noticeably enough to warrant it's mention in the USA.
I think the issue is that the HK tech writers and lawyers were just too specific on Pg 14; I'm virtually certain that it's a simple oversight.TunnelRat said:If you're still concerned, call HK.
However, until HK revises the manual, it says what it says.
buckhorn_cortez
New member
I think the issue is that the HK tech writers and lawyers were just too specific on Pg 14; I'm virtually certain that it's a simple oversight.
However, until HK revises the manual, it says what it says.
I've already blown that one completely - and don't really care. I've have about 2K rounds through my VP9 of a variety of ammunition including European, Mexican, South Korean, and Philippine manufactured ammunition.
If the pistol can't shoot whatever is handy to put into it - it's no good to me.
The barrel tests done by HK include firing a round with an obstructed barrel. The HK barrels are designed and manufactured from the special HK barrel steel so they do not burst with an obstructed barrel.
If they can withstand that test - I'm almost sure they won't be damaged shooting whatever ammunition you want to use.
I was a RO at a large guns expo last years. I worked several booths helping shooters shoot new guns. The VP9 was one of them. I had everyone from beginners to left handed to senior citizens with no experience shoot the VP9 all day. Not one issue with any of the supplied Federal, PCM, or WWB. Limp wristed shooting was very common. I had my PPQ on my belt the entire day and did ALOT of side by side shooting when the lines slowed down. The VP9 is a great gun and felt very similar to the PPQ. There are three top tier new striker fire guns I would recomend and the VP9 is one of them.
In addition to being underpowered, it's my experience that Russian steel-case ammo often has very hard primers that may cause ignition problems.
This does not bear directly on the HK VP9 but I have had the same experience shooting steel-case Russian 9mm ammo. I am currently running a 13lb reduced power mainspring in my Beretta 92 FS and I have had multiple ignition failures with the "Monarch" branded 9x19mm ammo sold by Academy. This is steel-cased Russian made stuff. The rounds always ignited on the second strike.
The same pistol has not yet had any ignition failures using any other type of 9mm ammo, including multiple brands with CCI primers.
I shot the VP9 and found it to be a very fine pistol. The Sig P320 fit my hand a bit better but the VP9 was a range rental so I did not have the opportunity to modify the grip side panels and backstraps. I also shot the P320 a bit better, but for reasons I won't get into here, I won't be buying the P320 or any other Sig product.
I'm familiar with both striker-fired and DA/SA actions. I used to carry the XDm and feel comfortable carrying a striker-fired. My wife took that one over. I currently carry the M11 and am confident with the DA/SA. The only issue is, it's a bit heavy and I'm looking for something lighter. I know there is lighter out there but the VP9 caught my eye. I've got a SIG MK25 so I won't be without a DA/SA pistol-that's my nightstand gun.