Visitors (tourists) & gun ranges/rentals?

W

wogpotter

New member
Someone asked me this earlier & I haven't a clue. What is legal for an overseas visitor, (tourist), not a legal resident, but someone on a visa of one kind or another such as a Visitor's visa, to do.

Can they fire a friends gun at at range as it is loaned to them?

Can they rent a gun from a range for money?

Is there a distinction between a rifle, "assault weapon" shotgun or handgun & what is it?

This exact question relates to Florida, but I'd be interested in various state as well as federal laws.
 
"Assault weapon" is no longer defined in federal law. Various states define it differently.

I've seen foreign visitors rent guns and shoot at the range where I shoot. The only state I'm aware of in which one can't even touch a firearm without a permit is New York. (Not sure about Illinois or California.)
 
You can probably add Washington to that list come Wednesday morning.

Anyone here legally can rent a gun at a range, just can't buy one. Illegal aliens can't touch one. State laws may require permits.
 
There is no federal restriction on any of those activities. While some states may have their own restrictions, I'm not aware of any in Florida.

The 14th Amendment protects the RKBA for anyone on American soil, regardless of citizenship.
 
aGUILA Blanca said:
(Not sure about Illinois or California.)
Click to expand...
In Illinois non-residents are specifically exempted from the FOID Act while at a shooting range. There is no distinction made for foreigners. And legal resident aliens are eligible for a FOID card.

So they're good to go in Illinois, at least at a firing range.

(430 ILCS 65/2) (from Ch. 38, par. 83-2)

(b) The provisions of this Section regarding the possession of firearms, firearm ammunition, stun guns, and tasers do not apply to:


(7) Nonresidents while on a firing or shooting range
recognized by the Department of State Police;
Click to expand...
 
LOL in Illinoise a resident has to have a FOID before he can even touch a firearm or ammo. But an out of stater can do so at a gun store or range in state...Crazy.
 
27 CFR §478.32(a)(5) prohibits the possession receipt of firearms and ammunition by an alien admitted to the USA on a nonimmigrant visa unless certain conditions are met. The most common exception is that the person holds a valid hunting license. [EDIT: This may not apply to rentals. See follow-on posts.]

My emphasis in boldface and my notes in [brackets]:
27 CFR §478.32 said:
(a) No person may ship or transport any firearm or ammunition in interstate or foreign commerce, or receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess any firearm or ammunition in or affecting commerce, who:

[(1) thru (4) omitted]

(5) Being an alien—

(i) Is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or

(ii) Except as provided in paragraph (f) of this section, has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa: Provided, That the provisions of this paragraph (a)(5)(ii) do not apply to any alien who has been lawfully admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa, if that alien is—

(A) Admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or sporting purposes or is in possession of a hunting license or permit lawfully issued in the United States;

(B) An official representative of a foreign government who is either accredited to the United States Government or the Government's mission to an international organization having its headquarters in the United States or is en route to or from another country to which that alien is accredited. This exception only applies if the firearm or ammunition is shipped, transported, possessed, or received in the representative's official capacity;

(C) An official of a foreign government or a distinguished foreign visitor who has been so designated by the Department of State. This exception only applies if the firearm or ammunition is shipped, transported, possessed, or received in the official's or visitor's official capacity, except if the visitor is a private individual who does not have an official capacity; or

(D) A foreign law enforcement officer of a friendly foreign government entering the United States on official law enforcement business...

[several sections skipped]

(f) Pursuant to 18 U.S.C. 922(y)(3), any individual who has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa may receive a waiver from the prohibition contained in paragraph (a)(5)(ii) of this section if the Attorney General approves a petition for the waiver.
Click to expand...
FWIW one of my local ranges clearly states in the range rules that nonimmigrant aliens are not permitted to rent firearms without a hunting license.
 
Last edited:
I suspect that we would find Tom is right about how it's supposed to be. I wouldn't be surprised if CarGuy is right about how it currently IS. I can't imagine this comes up enough for anyone to have made a federal case out of it yet. at least on possession- I also suspect concealed carry laws might have more input if someone wanted to do research.

I'd also point out the hunting license section bolded is the second half of an "OR" The first half being
Admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or sporting purposes
Click to expand...
Going to the President's Cup at Camp Perry is a lawful sporting purpose, and does not require a hunting license.

Someone who knows more would have to chime in on how one gets "admitted to the United States" for a sporting purpose as opposed to tourism, business, pleasure or what have you.
 
Last edited:
It actually was brought up by a British friend who was not allowed to rent a firearm, or even fire a borrowed one on a (commercial) range in Florida.

I understand that a hunting license is the most common (over here), but doesn't the law consider target practice on a commercial range to be "sporting purposes"? After all the law you quote says "or is in possession of a hunting license", not AND in possession.
 
As Tom mentioned you're more in Civil Rights/Discrimination law than RKBA law.

Questions that haven't or haven't quite been directly asked/answered with supporting evidence:

Do non-citizens legally present have a RKBA.

Is National Origin/Citizenship status a protected class as regards to services rendered? i.e. Can you refuse to serve any and all non-US citizens in your business.

If the answer to either of those is No, then it's probably not a rights violation.

If they don't have the right, they can't be deprived of it. I have a strong suspicion they do have the right however.

If there is no law prohibiting denial of service to these protected classes, there's also probably not quite a rights violation. National Origin and Citizenship status are both a Federal Protected class as far as hiring and firing. Title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits discrimination based on National Origin, but not necessarily Citizenship in "Places of Entertainment"

Edit to add: There's also a general exemption for discrimination against these classes to allow for following the law, executive orders(which somehow isn't the law I guess?), and the like- i.e. discrimination against illegal aliens in hiring practices because it's illegal to hire illegal aliens. So if your friend wasn't "Admitted to the US for sporting purposes" (whatever that means) and/or didn't have a hunting license, they may not be legally allowed to possess a firearm.
 
Regarding the hunting license exemption: when I was membership director of our rifle club an Australian guy wanted to join but was stationed here for work - on and off, 6-8 months at a time. Work visas, not immigrant visa, no green card, not a permanent resident.

Initially I told him that since he could not legally own/buy a rifle or ammunition here, club rules said he could not join. He pointed out the "hunting license" exemption, I talked it over with the club board of directors - a couple of whom were FFLs who verified that he could buy guns/ammo as long as he had a hunting license - and we got him into the club.

Turned out to be one of the best LR shooters - he was a member of the Australian national rifle team or whatever it is called. A remarkable shot and an asset to every match he attended.

He had to buy a hunting license every year, never hunted animals (landed a couple of range records though), and never became a permanent resident.
 
I had a visitor from Ireland that I wanted to take to a local range. The guy at the range said federal law requires the person to have a certain set of docs. I don't remember all of the acceptable docs, but a hunting license was one of the approved things he could bring. He had to buy a hunting license for a 3 day period just to shoot for an hour, but he was happy to spend the extra few dollars. He had a great time.
 
Chris is correct when it comes to transfers to nonimmigrant aliens.

If they're renting a firearm at the range, it's still in possession of the range owner, so it's not an issue. Same goes for me letting them use my personal gun if I'm present.

Essentially, you won't find a law on that because it's not prohibited.
 
Tom Servo said:
Chris is correct when it comes to transfers to nonimmigrant aliens... If they're renting a firearm at the range, it's still in possession of the range owner, so it's not an issue. Same goes for me letting them use my personal gun if I'm present.
Click to expand...
I had a strong hunch that this was the case, which is why I didn't come right out and say "Don't do it"- I just reported the facts. :) It's that sneaky constructive possession concept again- I gather that a rental or loan within the premises of the range does not necessarily constitute the nonresident alien "receiving" the firearm pursuant to §478.32.

My uncertainty was prompted by this little tidbit...
27 CFR § 478.97 said:
(a) A licensee may lend or rent a firearm to any person for temporary use off the premises of the licensee for lawful sporting purposes: Provided, That the delivery of the firearm to such person is not prohibited by § 478.99(b) or § 478.99(c), the licensee complies with the requirements of § 478.102, and the licensee records such loan or rental in the records required to be kept by him under Subpart H of this part.
(b) A club, association, or similar organization temporarily furnishing firearms (whether by loan, rental, or otherwise) to participants in a skeet, trap, target, or similar shooting activity for use at the time and place such activity is held does not, unattended by other circumstances, cause such club, association, or similar organization to be engaged in the business of a dealer in firearms or as engaging in firearms transactions. Therefore, licensing and recordkeeping requirements contained in this part pertaining to firearms transactions would not apply to this temporary furnishing of firearms for use on premises on which such an activity is conducted.
Click to expand...
27 CFR §478.99(c) mirrors the prohibited person list in §478.32(a). There would be no reason to have an off-premises loan or rental exception in §478.97(a) if "any person"- presumably including an nonimmigrant alien- were not implicitly able to possess a loaned or rented firearm on the premises.

Now that this is becoming more clear, it makes me wonder why the range referenced in my first post has bothered with the hunting license rule. :confused:

Pardon the sidetrack, folks. :D
 
Last edited:
Now that this is becoming more clear, it makes me wonder why the range referenced in my first post has bothered with the hunting license rule.
Click to expand...
That's a reference to the regs on transferring a firearm to a nonimmigrant alien.
 
Tom Servo said:
[The hunting license thing is]a reference to the regs on transferring a firearm to a nonimmigrant alien.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but the hunting license requirement was in the range rules for using rental firearms. If this is not necessarily a transfer, why bother? CYA most likely? :rolleyes:
 
why the range referenced in my first post has bothered with the hunting license rule.
Click to expand...

Because you had to dig and dig for that. How far on the side of caution are you going to sit when if you do it wrong, you get free Federal Housing with extremely unfavorable neighbors and roommates.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top