Virginia Tech Consequences?

No law could stop the gunman. Period.

A person could have legally stopped him if allowed to do so but that could not happen.

No law could prevent this from happenning and no law could stop it from continuing.

NEVER EVER give in to the logic that a law can actually DO something. It cannot. People do.

Our side only asks for the same freedom of action that the criminal has. The law against carrying applies to the criminal and victim equally here but only one group really cares about it.
 
All I can say is get your guns now because, whether it's this latest HB1022 or whatever it is, or whether it's something else, the time is ripe for the population to swing back against gun ownership.

After a lull period there have been a number of high-profile shootings, just as there were in the 90s. This often prompts a knee-jerk political reaction.

Be prepared!
 
Welp. Any chance off getting my CCW now (read the 'convince my police chief' thread) is gone... i'm a 22 year old engineering student. Now I'm gong to be labeled as a nutcase that will go off and blow people away if i dont succeed at my classes <sigh>
 
Our objective should be to take the emotion out of the arguments. To face the brutal facts. The primary of these is it is not possible to keep guns out of the hands of those intent on using them. History proves this over and over again. We must stop making free fire zones for the criminally intent. With this sort of criminal you must meet force with force. There is no way to reason with this sort of individual. They are completely beyond reason.
 
Better just do away with all ccw then shouldn't we?

Sorry but your logic does not stand up and is often used by the left to attack ccw. Strangely it seems that more cops tend to mistakenly shoot cops than cops shooting legal ccw holders or ccw holders shooting other ccw holders. There is a very logical reason for this.

Cops go towards the gunfire.

CCW holders go away.

The ccw holder does not go charing into a building where gunfire is erupting from to save the day. If the ccw holder can not get away he engages, then he gets away. This was a case of students waiting to be gunned down while holed up in class rooms. A CCW holder holed up could have engaged the criminal as he enterred and ended this.
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You have made so many assumptions in your post it is reduced to nothing but hypothetical. There are a lot of could haves in each affirmative statement. CCW holder COULD have just as easily engaged and been shot anyway.

Any more rhetoric?

For the record I am for CCW. I live in VA and think that college students should have the right to do so. What I am not is blind to the fact that CCW would not have prevented this anymore than stricter guns laws would have. There are too many variables, too many unknowns there is no single answer.

Like I said before all this is premature. We need to think of dead, injured, their friends and their family before we think of ourselves.
 
Like I said before all this is premature. We need to think of dead, injured, their friends and their family before we think of ourselves.
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In a perfect world we could. Unfortunately, in a world where ABC already has a poll testing how this affects the political climate for increased gun control, where the Bradys will have a press release out shortly, and where AWBII is still hanging over our heads, we need to think of both the immediate victims and the future victims, the latter of which include us.
 
So because the other side is a bunch of insensitive opportunistic scum who are looking to use this tragic event for political gain we should do the same. We can't take the high road wait for all the facts and let these people grieve before we exploit them for our political needs.

What is this world coming to?
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I can't think of a Higher Road than taking actions which keep my kids safe, can you?
 
I think the point everyones missing here is If someone wants a gun bad enough there gonna get one....
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While that's true we haven't actually learned yet whether or not this guy was a CCW holder and used two perfectly legal, registered guns to commit this crime. Just because he did something illegal does not mean he wasn't a law-abiding gun owner before today.
 
In a perfect world we could. Unfortunately, in a world where ABC already has a poll testing how this affects the political climate for increased gun control, where the Bradys will have a press release out shortly, and where AWBII is still hanging over our heads, we need to think of both the immediate victims and the future victims, the latter of which include us.
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I can't think of a Higher Road than taking actions which keep my kids safe, can you?
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So the answer is while the bodies are still warm in the morgue is to lower oneself to a ambulance chancing political news hound. Spouting rhetoric about AWB and so on while people are grieving for 32 dead? That is how you are planning on winning people over to our side? That is your best course of action? No wonder we loosing this issue.

For you it is an abstract discussion about a political event for many others it is a real event with real consequences and real deaths of friends and family.
 
It doesnt matter if this guy was or not. If they make tighter laws and things like that. guns are like drugs if someone wants it there gonna get it and you cant stop it
 
I wonder what the media would be saying had a CCW shot and killed the suspect in the middle of it all? Wonder if I would still be reading all of the gun control garbage that is flowing all over the place. Have a read though some of the comment sections on the news pages reporting on the incident. Some of the responses are scary.

-Russ
 
political news hound. Spouting rhetoric about AWB and so on while people are grieving for 32 dead? That is how you are planning on winning people over to our side? That is your best course of action? No wonder we loosing this issue.

For you it is an abstract discussion about a political event for many others it is a real event with real consequences and real deaths of friends and family.
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There's nothing more real than the life of my student son's ability to defend himself. I'm not doing anything except making a few taps on my keyboard. What exactly are you doing, besides misspelling "losing?"
 
It doesnt matter if this guy was or not. If they make tighter laws and things like that. guns are like drugs if someone wants it there gonna get it and you cant stop it
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Actually it does matter, especially in the context of this thread where we're focusing on the legal and political ramifications of this event. If this guy turns out to be a CCW holder and his guns were legal and registered it's going to be even worse for us than if he wasn't.
 
There have been several cases where unarmed bystanders have stopped a gunman ...keeping him from killing even more people

It is assinine to conclude that an armed citizen could in no way have helped bring this to a quicker end
 
So the answer is while the bodies are still warm in the morgue is to lower oneself to a ambulance chancing political news hound. Spouting rhetoric about AWB and so on while people are grieving for 32 dead? That is how you are planning on winning people over to our side? That is your best course of action? No wonder we loosing this issue.
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Actually, I've done everything I can do for the victims and their families through prayer. Having done that, I don't believe the proper response to the other consequences of this nightmare is to simply say "we'll deal with those later." I also don't believe berating people on a firearms board in a thread specifically dedicated to the legal and political consequences of this tragedy will somehow soothe the victims and their families.
 
This issue is not about facts. It is perception and emotion. We, on this forum, understand, respect and use guns for recreation and defense, we also understand the truth of the 2nd Ammendment. We are fighting a "flat earth society" in regards to our beliefs and issues.

With the current Congress and this tragedy we will be excoriated. Go on the offensive. This will be milked by the anti's to a far greater degree than Columbine was.
 
Rella-

I have a very good friend at Virginia Tech who is a computer science student. The building where many of the shootings took place was the Science & Engineering building. I've been trying to get ahold of him and have so far been unable.

That said, this isn't about politics. Perhaps I chose the wrong thread (or rather, the discussion on appropriateness is in the wrong thread--initial question was simple consequences), and for that I apologize. This is about freedom. I am sorry for those that have been hurt, but I remain eternally vigiliant when it comes to my rights. I recognize there are very bad people out there that will stop at nothing, will use any excuse, to take away guns and/or to harm the gun community, for no other reason that they a) don't like guns b) don't like the type of person who likes guns.

I appreciate your input, and believe part of it is accurately aimed. Looking at this for spin control is distasteful to me. Looking at this for potential consequences does not seem to be. If a terrorist attack occurs, my first question will be about the political and military consequences in the Middle East. I will do so and talk about the issue without referring to a brother in the Army, because that isn't relevant. This realism, the leaving of my feelings and emotions behind and looking at possible outcomes rationally does not seem distasteful.

Again, if you find it so, I apologize, but I think this is more a question of aesthetics rather than common mores.

Update: He got back to me, and he's ok.
 
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I don't think it's callous to be discussing the danger this tragedy poses to our rights.

Like most here I'm sure, I value human life, and I feel terrible for the victims of this tragedy and their familes. No question about it. But we can't bring back the victims. And the potential loss of freedom isn't exactly a minor concern. I would rather die myself than live as a disarmed slave in a police state, and this incident will take us a big step closer towards living in one.

We might be able to keep the AKs, ARs, and FALs we already own -- and I certainly hope no one is cowardly enough to turn theirs in! -- but buying new ones legally might become a big problem in the near future.

Stand by for another trade of liberty for "security"...
 
As for my analysis on the possible political developments.

I think with primary season coming up, it's possible that this debate will spill over to that realm. I'm inclined to believe frontrunners Obama and Hillary will both be willing to take on the issue from a Liberal point of view. However, I believe that Hillary knows it to be a losing issue (look at AWB & 1994's 54-seat swing for Republicans in the Congress ).

I don't actually believe laws will be passed against guns because of this. You look at when this happened in Texas, with the Luby's Massacre, and Texas congress overrode then-Gov. Ann Richards to allow CCW. Were it a .50 caliber sniper rifle, I could see it in a second. If the weapon is an "assault weapon" then I can see a ban attempt, though previous bans a) clearly did nothing b) were not instituted after the Midway Sniper Shootings.

My thoughts are that there will be a large debate coming. Furthermore, I believe that the tide of gun rights that had, I believe, been on freedom's side for the last few years (or last ~15, in the case of CCW), may slow, but will not reverse. (I.e. I can see good (pro-gun) laws that would have been passed not being passed, but I do not see anti-gun laws being passed).

Mostly looking for views on possible political consequences, as Capt. Charlie pointed out.
 
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