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Virginia Tech Consequences?
- Thread starter junkpile
- Start date
This is a tragedy and there is no doubt of that.
Now look at this as realists. The Dems hold the House and Senate and want a AWB to go through. They will (probably) have the Presidency in a couple years. They are going to use this as a rallying cry and we would be idiots not to recognize this.
We may not want to be seen as capitalizing on a tragedy but our enemies have no such problem. We need to immediately make certain that the stories of defenseless students and faculty waiting to die are heard. If any CCW holders are amongst them they need to come forward now and and explain how they were banned from being able to defend themselves by Virginia Tech policy (if not state law). Just as the Luby's shooting in Texas brought about CCW for that state we need to make the point perfectly clear that no law could have stopped this gunman, so no law should strip the innocent of the ability to defend themself.
Now look at this as realists. The Dems hold the House and Senate and want a AWB to go through. They will (probably) have the Presidency in a couple years. They are going to use this as a rallying cry and we would be idiots not to recognize this.
We may not want to be seen as capitalizing on a tragedy but our enemies have no such problem. We need to immediately make certain that the stories of defenseless students and faculty waiting to die are heard. If any CCW holders are amongst them they need to come forward now and and explain how they were banned from being able to defend themselves by Virginia Tech policy (if not state law). Just as the Luby's shooting in Texas brought about CCW for that state we need to make the point perfectly clear that no law could have stopped this gunman, so no law should strip the innocent of the ability to defend themself.
http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/wb/xp-50658
Jan 21, 2006
HB 1572, which would have allowed handguns on college campuses, died in subcommittee.
By Greg Esposito 381-1675
A bill that would have given college students and employees the right to carry handguns on campus died with nary a shot being fired in the General Assembly.
House Bill 1572 didn't get through the House Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety. It died Monday in the subcommittee stage, the first of several hurdles bills must overcome before becoming laws.
The bill was proposed by Del. Todd Gilbert, R-Shenandoah County, on behalf of the Virginia Citizens Defense League. Gilbert was unavailable Monday and spokesman Gary Frink would not comment on the bill's defeat other than to say the issue was dead for this General Assembly session.
Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill was defeated. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."
Del. Dave Nutter, R-Christiansburg, would not comment Monday because he was not part of the subcommittee that discussed the bill.
Most universities in Virginia require students and employees, other than police, to check their guns with police or campus security upon entering campus. The legislation was designed to prohibit public universities from making "rules or regulations limiting or abridging the ability of a student who possesses a valid concealed handgun permit ... from lawfully carrying a concealed handgun."
The legislation allowed for exceptions for participants in athletic events, storage of guns in residence halls and military training programs.
Last spring a Virginia Tech student was disciplined for bringing a handgun to class, despite having a concealed handgun permit. Some gun owners questioned the university's authority, while the Virginia Association of Chiefs of Police came out against the presence of guns on campus.
In June, Tech's governing board approved a violence prevention policy reiterating its ban on students or employees carrying guns and prohibiting visitors from bringing them into campus facilities.
RSublime4Life
New member
we need to make the point perfectly clear that no law could have stopped this gunman, so no law should strip the innocent of the ability to defend themselves.
I shutter to think of the number of people out there that would miss this point. Laws to disarm will only disarm the lawful. The Left's will use this incident as fuel for their fodder, no doubt.
BoringAccountant
New member
This is an AWFUL tragedy and I hope that each of the posters from VA are safe as well as their respective families...Our thoughts and prayers are with VA today
Capt. Charlie
Moderator Emeritus
rellascout
Moderator
Living in VA and knowing tons of people who attend or have attended VA Tech I think that it is very poor taste and very poor timing to discuss the political ramifications of this on going event.
Our thoughts should be for those who have lost their lives, their friends or their loved ones. There will be plenty of time to dicesset all of the political fallout once all the facts are in.
The bodies are not even cold yet.
Our thoughts should be for those who have lost their lives, their friends or their loved ones. There will be plenty of time to dicesset all of the political fallout once all the facts are in.
The bodies are not even cold yet.
The Brady campaign does not wait, they would like nothing more than to parade all of the victims in front of congress. We have to act before the other side does.
The facts that groups like the Brady campaign have insured that every school is disarmed must come to light. They have made this type of situation more likely to occur by disarming everyone.
I think this would be a good time to write letter to your Representative saying that you feel that everyone should have the option to save their own life and not have to depend on the police to come save them.
The facts that groups like the Brady campaign have insured that every school is disarmed must come to light. They have made this type of situation more likely to occur by disarming everyone.
I think this would be a good time to write letter to your Representative saying that you feel that everyone should have the option to save their own life and not have to depend on the police to come save them.
Living in VA and knowing tons of people who attend or have attended VA Tech I think that it is very poor taste and very poor timing to discuss the political ramifications of this on going event.
Our thoughts should be for those who have lost their lives, their friends or their loved ones. There will be plenty of time to dicesset all of the political fallout once all the facts are in.
The bodies are not even cold yet.
Nobody here is blind to the grief connected with this tragedy. At the same time there are already media figures using this as anti 2A ammunition. I would be happy to let this pass with only a statement of sympathy for the victims but as our enemies will not we would be foolish to let them own the situation.
Time and time again the antis have capitalized on our reluctance to become "policitcal" when tragedy strikes. While not the path I would like to take we need to take control of this situation.
rellascout
Moderator
Nobody here is blind to the grief connected with this tragedy. At the same time there are already media figures using this as anti 2A ammunition. I would be happy to let this pass with only a statement of sympathy for the victims but as our enemies will not we would be foolish to let them own the situation.
Time and time again the antis have capitalized on our reluctance to become "policitcal" when tragedy strikes. While not the path I would like to take we need to take control of this situation.
So because the other side is a bunch of insensitive opportunistic scum who are looking to use this tragic event for political gain we should do the same. We can't take the high road wait for all the facts and let these people grieve before we exploit them for our political needs.
What is this world coming to?
What is this world coming to?
If this thread bothers you so much, you should probably stay out of it until such time has passed as you feel appropriate.
The world does not stop when tragedy occurs.
It doesn't look like anybody is being disrespectful of these victims.
If this thread bothers you so much, you should probably stay out of it until such time has passed as you feel appropriate.
The world does not stop when tragedy occurs.
It doesn't look like anybody is being disrespectful of these victims.
+ (A BIG) 1
rellascout
Moderator
Thanks for your input.
JuanCarlos
New member
we need to make the point perfectly clear that no law could have stopped this gunman, so no law should strip the innocent of the ability to defend themselves.
Wrong. A law explicitly allowing CCW holders to carry on campus could have stopped this gunman. It could have at least led to less people dead.
rellascout
Moderator
It could have just as easily lead to more people dead. How would the cops tell one armed student from the killer. Did he have some special hat on? I do not think so.
It might have saved some people it might have killed some people. In the end that is not really the point is it?
It might have saved some people it might have killed some people. In the end that is not really the point is it?
You are either in a boxing match with rules or a street fight. The Brady Bunch, Michael Moore, and others of that ilk turned this into a street fight long ago.
Take the high road if you wish but continuing to do so will only allow you to polish the stock on your manditorily deactivated deer rifle with the certainty that you never did anything that could have been misunderstood.
We have the benifit of knowing logically that we are right. There is no shame in saying that. We know that no law made by man can casue the evil to be good. We know that no law will cause those who wish to do harm not to do so. We know that what we advocate would helpt to protect life while those who oppose us will only cause greater tragedy.
They act from emotion and fear of what they do not understand. They depend on outrage and grief to strengthen their cause. They parade victims as being nobler for having died than those who have defended the innocent and themselves. They lie, misquote and misrepresent at every opportunity.
They depend on ignorance.
We depend on knowledge.
Both of us are trying to sway those in the middle.
If they will not give up the fight and will use any dirty trick to win I will certainly not help them by standing by passively while the lie and misrepresent.
Take the high road if you wish but continuing to do so will only allow you to polish the stock on your manditorily deactivated deer rifle with the certainty that you never did anything that could have been misunderstood.
We have the benifit of knowing logically that we are right. There is no shame in saying that. We know that no law made by man can casue the evil to be good. We know that no law will cause those who wish to do harm not to do so. We know that what we advocate would helpt to protect life while those who oppose us will only cause greater tragedy.
They act from emotion and fear of what they do not understand. They depend on outrage and grief to strengthen their cause. They parade victims as being nobler for having died than those who have defended the innocent and themselves. They lie, misquote and misrepresent at every opportunity.
They depend on ignorance.
We depend on knowledge.
Both of us are trying to sway those in the middle.
If they will not give up the fight and will use any dirty trick to win I will certainly not help them by standing by passively while the lie and misrepresent.
It could have just as easily lead to more people dead. How would the cops tell one armed student from the killer. Did he have some special hat on? I do not think so.
It might have saved some people it might have killed some people. In the end that is not really the point is it?
Better just do away with all ccw then shouldn't we?
Sorry but your logic does not stand up and is often used by the left to attack ccw. Strangely it seems that more cops tend to mistakenly shoot cops than cops shooting legal ccw holders or ccw holders shooting other ccw holders. There is a very logical reason for this.
Cops go towards the gunfire.
CCW holders go away.
The ccw holder does not go charing into a building where gunfire is erupting from to save the day. If the ccw holder can not get away he engages, then he gets away. This was a case of students waiting to be gunned down while holed up in class rooms. A CCW holder holed up could have engaged the criminal as he enterred and ended this.
CCW holders will never be a majority. They are likely to not even be a sizeable percentage. 2% would probably be about the most we could expect. Most people go through life never even considerring the need to defend themselves so the situation you envision, 20 peoepl pulling out concealed weapons at once, is statistically imposible unless you are at the gun shop, range, or restaurant down the street from the range.
Uhh
What cops? They didn't get there till it was obviously too late. You don't run around waving your piece in the air. You draw and fire.
It would have taken one concealed carry holder for this to have ended a lot less tragically.
It could have just as easily lead to more people dead. How would the cops tell one armed student from the killer. Did he have some special hat on? I do not think so.
What cops? They didn't get there till it was obviously too late. You don't run around waving your piece in the air. You draw and fire.
It would have taken one concealed carry holder for this to have ended a lot less tragically.