When I started this thread I was under the impression that they were a saturday night speacial. I am really surprised with all of the positive feed back im getting. My under cover is a great little gun im glad I got it. I sent it to be reblued this morning. Thanks for the good reorts.
vintage charter arms under cover
- Thread starter bspillman
- Start date
When "Charco" bought the name the QC went totally into the toilet. Much bad rep ensued and over the years got applied (unfairly) to the older ones.
The 44Spl variants didn't help either - those will shake themselves loose.
Basically, an open ejector rod and case-colored hammer/trigger will tell you it's an older one. In .38 and passes the checkout, it's worth owning.
The 44Spl variants didn't help either - those will shake themselves loose.
Basically, an open ejector rod and case-colored hammer/trigger will tell you it's an older one. In .38 and passes the checkout, it's worth owning.
I found an old Charter Arms Undercover in a pawn shop back in 1995. I am not certain of it's vintage as I never checked it out. I carried it as my LE back-up for several years and the only problem I've ever had was the ejector rod coming unscrewed. Like Mike Irwin, mine has been in the safe for a long time, retired, and I haven't even seen it in several years. I might just pull it out and let it see the light of day.
Here's the rough notes taken from my data base with over 1000 points including magazine articles, company brochures and sales tags, etc:
The very first Charter Arms Corporation production began in 1965 in BRIDGEPORT CONN - earliest pieces - mostly Undercover model will have either NO address on the right side of the barrel or will have BRIDGEPORT CONN
Around 1974, address was changed to STRATFORD CONN - all pieces made after mid 1974 will be marked with that address on the right side of the barrel and all will have CHARTER ARMS CORP. as the first line. Sometime in 1991, Charter Arms Corp. ceased operations. This was the end of the FIRST GENERATION.
Around mid 1991 (may be as early as 1988????), the company was re-organized under new leadership and became known as Charter Arms Company - CHARCO, and was located in ANSONIA CONN. All second generation pieces will be marked on the right side of the barrel with that name and address in two lines. This is the SECOND generation and apparently the period which caused the most damage to the Charter name and reputation.
In 2000, the company was again reorganized as CHARTER 2000 and relocated to SHELTON CONN. All pieces made during this THIRD generation will be marked with the SHELTON address. Early production of this generation seems to have been spotty and reputation still lagged. About a year and a half ago, the company re-reorganized under the direction of MKS Marketing and seems now to be if not flourishing at least it is progressing in quality and market share.
From the limited data set that I have been able to assemble so far the following serialization seems to be valid: (NOTE: model name and caliber will be stamped on left side of barrel on all pieces)
FIRST GENERATION
0001 - <13500 1964 - ? CHARTER ARMS CORP. right side of barrel marking only, no address
~13500 - <315,000 ? - ~1965 CHARTER ARMS CORP. over BRIDGEPORT CONN .marking
~315,000 - <1,088,000 - ~1974 to 1991 - CHARTER ARMS CORP. over STRATFORD CONN. marking
SECOND GENERATION
>1,090,000 - ??? 1991 - 2000? CHARCO over ANSONIA CONN- marking
THIRD GENERATION
000001 - to date 2000 - 2011 CHARTER ARMS 2000 over SHELTON CONN marking.
This is the updated (4/12) serial number info that I have - based upon around 1050 data points
The earliest 1st Gen - ~0 to ~13,500 have NO barrel ADDRESS and s/n is on lower right corner on right side of frame. CA company founded in 1964, first production pieces of the Undercover model produced in 1965
Bridgeport CONN address - ~13,500 to ~315,000 1967 - 1974
Stratford CONN address - ~315,000 to ~1,090,000 1974 - ~1991
All marked as Charter Arms Corporation
2nd Generation - CHARCO, Ansonia Conn address - 1,090,000 to ??? ~1991 - 1996?
3rd Generation - CHARTER 2000 - Shelton Conn - 0 to where ever they are today. 2007 Charter Arms/ MKS
From the 26 pieces in my collection (all 1st Gen) and from dozens more that I've had the opportunity to observe and handle, I'd say that around s/n 600,000 the finish was made a lot finer - although the integrals (lock work, action) was at least as good as the earlier ones. I have or have read magazine articles that cover pretty much of the production life of the 1st Generation, and during that period (around late 1980, early 1981) it seems that CA attempted to capture more of the market by doing so, also in April of 1981, they introduced Stainless Steel revolvers into the mix, for the first time. Some of the articles lamented that the earlier pieces, although rough finish, were rather inexpensive (~60-65% of S&W) and when CA began their "modernization" process, the finishes got better but the prices increased to about 85 to 90% of the S&W line for comparable models.
During the 2nd Generation, the CHARCO (Charter Arms COMPANY), under new management and reorganized, the quality was definitely more spotty and haphazard. I've seen CHARCO produced guns with Stratford marked barrels, obviously using up old stock.
The earliest CHARTER 2000 pieces I had the opportunity to handle (some fairly early 4 digits s/ns - were uniformly, poorly fitted and finished and had some horrendous and gritty actions. That seems to have been rectified under MKS's (circa 2007) new leadership and the most recent pieces I've handled - s/n's in the high 100,000 range have been "decent" but not as fine in finish and action as the mid years of the 1st Generation. This is simply my studied opinion based upon experience.
The very first Charter Arms Corporation production began in 1965 in BRIDGEPORT CONN - earliest pieces - mostly Undercover model will have either NO address on the right side of the barrel or will have BRIDGEPORT CONN
Around 1974, address was changed to STRATFORD CONN - all pieces made after mid 1974 will be marked with that address on the right side of the barrel and all will have CHARTER ARMS CORP. as the first line. Sometime in 1991, Charter Arms Corp. ceased operations. This was the end of the FIRST GENERATION.
Around mid 1991 (may be as early as 1988????), the company was re-organized under new leadership and became known as Charter Arms Company - CHARCO, and was located in ANSONIA CONN. All second generation pieces will be marked on the right side of the barrel with that name and address in two lines. This is the SECOND generation and apparently the period which caused the most damage to the Charter name and reputation.
In 2000, the company was again reorganized as CHARTER 2000 and relocated to SHELTON CONN. All pieces made during this THIRD generation will be marked with the SHELTON address. Early production of this generation seems to have been spotty and reputation still lagged. About a year and a half ago, the company re-reorganized under the direction of MKS Marketing and seems now to be if not flourishing at least it is progressing in quality and market share.
From the limited data set that I have been able to assemble so far the following serialization seems to be valid: (NOTE: model name and caliber will be stamped on left side of barrel on all pieces)
FIRST GENERATION
0001 - <13500 1964 - ? CHARTER ARMS CORP. right side of barrel marking only, no address
~13500 - <315,000 ? - ~1965 CHARTER ARMS CORP. over BRIDGEPORT CONN .marking
~315,000 - <1,088,000 - ~1974 to 1991 - CHARTER ARMS CORP. over STRATFORD CONN. marking
SECOND GENERATION
>1,090,000 - ??? 1991 - 2000? CHARCO over ANSONIA CONN- marking
THIRD GENERATION
000001 - to date 2000 - 2011 CHARTER ARMS 2000 over SHELTON CONN marking.
This is the updated (4/12) serial number info that I have - based upon around 1050 data points
The earliest 1st Gen - ~0 to ~13,500 have NO barrel ADDRESS and s/n is on lower right corner on right side of frame. CA company founded in 1964, first production pieces of the Undercover model produced in 1965
Bridgeport CONN address - ~13,500 to ~315,000 1967 - 1974
Stratford CONN address - ~315,000 to ~1,090,000 1974 - ~1991
All marked as Charter Arms Corporation
2nd Generation - CHARCO, Ansonia Conn address - 1,090,000 to ??? ~1991 - 1996?
3rd Generation - CHARTER 2000 - Shelton Conn - 0 to where ever they are today. 2007 Charter Arms/ MKS
From the 26 pieces in my collection (all 1st Gen) and from dozens more that I've had the opportunity to observe and handle, I'd say that around s/n 600,000 the finish was made a lot finer - although the integrals (lock work, action) was at least as good as the earlier ones. I have or have read magazine articles that cover pretty much of the production life of the 1st Generation, and during that period (around late 1980, early 1981) it seems that CA attempted to capture more of the market by doing so, also in April of 1981, they introduced Stainless Steel revolvers into the mix, for the first time. Some of the articles lamented that the earlier pieces, although rough finish, were rather inexpensive (~60-65% of S&W) and when CA began their "modernization" process, the finishes got better but the prices increased to about 85 to 90% of the S&W line for comparable models.
During the 2nd Generation, the CHARCO (Charter Arms COMPANY), under new management and reorganized, the quality was definitely more spotty and haphazard. I've seen CHARCO produced guns with Stratford marked barrels, obviously using up old stock.
The earliest CHARTER 2000 pieces I had the opportunity to handle (some fairly early 4 digits s/ns - were uniformly, poorly fitted and finished and had some horrendous and gritty actions. That seems to have been rectified under MKS's (circa 2007) new leadership and the most recent pieces I've handled - s/n's in the high 100,000 range have been "decent" but not as fine in finish and action as the mid years of the 1st Generation. This is simply my studied opinion based upon experience.
Mike Irwin
Staff
Jim,
Were 1st gen. Charter Arms all numbered in the same serial number series? Or did they have different serial number identifiers for the various models?
Were 1st gen. Charter Arms all numbered in the same serial number series? Or did they have different serial number identifiers for the various models?
Rifleman1776
New member
I sold CA revolvers from my shop in the 70s. I was always pleased with the quality, as were my customers. The price was right too. Yours should be a reliable shooter.
Rember the "Son of Sam"?
Years ago, there was a serial killer loose on the streets of NYC. He would approach parked vehicles with people sitting inside, and begin firing. Witness's reported that they would hear a shot, then "Click Click" Bang.
The detectives were trying to figure out the make of the revolver, and one of them happened to mention it to one of the department armorers who told them; "That's easy, it's a Charter Arms, most of them do that."
Years ago, there was a serial killer loose on the streets of NYC. He would approach parked vehicles with people sitting inside, and begin firing. Witness's reported that they would hear a shot, then "Click Click" Bang.
The detectives were trying to figure out the make of the revolver, and one of them happened to mention it to one of the department armorers who told them; "That's easy, it's a Charter Arms, most of them do that."
Mike Irwin
Staff
hear a shot, then...
Click
Click...
Bang?
Huh?
They would hear the shot, then they would hear a click click, and then hear something go bang (car door?) as in another shot?
I don't understand.
Click
Click...
Bang?
Huh?
They would hear the shot, then they would hear a click click, and then hear something go bang (car door?) as in another shot?
I don't understand.
ccSnoopycc
New member
Maybe two clicks from a follow up shot? My charter arms gives me one click in double action and two when pulling the hammer back in single action. Going along with the thread i think its pretty universal that the first generation charter arms are very reliable guns perfect for ccw. Its a shame they went through so many reorganizations I would like to see them up there competing with S&W, Ruger, and Taurus. I dont see or know of anyone that carries them where im at.
Jim,
Were 1st gen. Charter Arms all numbered in the same serial number series? Or did they have different serial number identifiers for the various models?
Mike,
From what I can tell from my research - the serial numbers were sequentially applied and independent of frame/model, all one long chain of numbers. I DO think that the frames may have been made in batches and some stored then finished at various times as needed to replenish inventory. This is probably especially true with the stainless steel frames as all of them have an 'S' stamped into the rear upper most corner of the right side of the frame. Which of course makes sense.
Were 1st gen. Charter Arms all numbered in the same serial number series? Or did they have different serial number identifiers for the various models?
Mike,
From what I can tell from my research - the serial numbers were sequentially applied and independent of frame/model, all one long chain of numbers. I DO think that the frames may have been made in batches and some stored then finished at various times as needed to replenish inventory. This is probably especially true with the stainless steel frames as all of them have an 'S' stamped into the rear upper most corner of the right side of the frame. Which of course makes sense.
lee n. field
New member
Serial killer in NYC with a Charter: sounds like David Berkowitz, the "Son of Sam".
Very Old Charter Arms 38 Special - Undercover
I just bought serial number 9275. No particular reason other than looked very nice and hardly used. Got it at estate sale, childeren in thier 50's selling mom & dad's guns. They said it was thier mom's "purse gun". Is it correct to assume that this gun is from the mid 1960's?
I just bought serial number 9275. No particular reason other than looked very nice and hardly used. Got it at estate sale, childeren in thier 50's selling mom & dad's guns. They said it was thier mom's "purse gun". Is it correct to assume that this gun is from the mid 1960's?
Charter Arms Early Undercover
Wow, just visited my old Charter Arms in the safe and thought I’d find out when it was made. Must be very early serial # 4187. Serial on lower right side frame, and no address on th right side barrel.
Surely a collectible, and in excellent condition.
diceman
Wow, just visited my old Charter Arms in the safe and thought I’d find out when it was made. Must be very early serial # 4187. Serial on lower right side frame, and no address on th right side barrel.
Surely a collectible, and in excellent condition.
diceman
dave7798801
New member
I have one I bought new in the 70's. Serial # 222223, probably hasn't had more than 200 rds through it. I will still stick it in my pocket if I'm just going outside for a bit and don't want to mess with putting on a holster.
I have owned at least a couple of dozen Charter Arms revolvers .. both old and new production. I have 3 at this time . 2 Alumium frame 38spl.s and one 44 spl ...
When my 25 year old niece asked me about a good 38spl .( she has a carry permit) I took her to the range with a older steel frame Charter 38spl a older model .. and several boxes of ammo ...after showing off her supriseing shooting skills ... I then .. I brought out a box of 110gr Hornady standard pressure CD ammo .. She ran it through the little revolver ......
I then went to the tail gate of my truck .. and cleaned the revolver , while showing her how ..
I then placed it in a zippered case and handed it to her .. With a box of 148 gr Wadcutters and a box of those 110gr Hornady CD ...it hers now
The little steel revolver weighs in at a scant 16oz . light for a steel frame . My aluminum framed models come in at 12oz ..
I always keep my eye peeled for a Charter revolver .. sometimes they can be found at great prices ...
When my 25 year old niece asked me about a good 38spl .( she has a carry permit) I took her to the range with a older steel frame Charter 38spl a older model .. and several boxes of ammo ...after showing off her supriseing shooting skills ... I then .. I brought out a box of 110gr Hornady standard pressure CD ammo .. She ran it through the little revolver ......
I then went to the tail gate of my truck .. and cleaned the revolver , while showing her how ..
I then placed it in a zippered case and handed it to her .. With a box of 148 gr Wadcutters and a box of those 110gr Hornady CD ...it hers now
The little steel revolver weighs in at a scant 16oz . light for a steel frame . My aluminum framed models come in at 12oz ..
I always keep my eye peeled for a Charter revolver .. sometimes they can be found at great prices ...
BusGunner007
New member
Tagged for later.
Story and pix to follow.
Wanting to check the numbers.
Thanks!
Story and pix to follow.
Wanting to check the numbers.
Thanks!
BusGunner007
New member
I'm sorry and confused.
Apparently I need both my cell phone and pc to be replaced.
I can get on here with my ancient android Samsung slider on Verizon, but I can't get on ARFCOM at home with my 2005 Gateway and stuff with Comcast.
I will still look at the Charter Arms with what info you show and here's what I can tell you...
My first firearm. Mom gave it to me with only a few rounds fired.
I have the box, original grips, and the sales receipt.
Model: 13831 UNDERCOVER. BULLDOG.
SERIAL NUMBER: 60759
8/22/73.
$75.64 w/tax
I tried to mess with it reading about a s&W J-Frame article and had to send it to Charter to get it fixed!
N/C.
That was 10/25/95. I had an FFL at the time.
They listed it as 'clean gun and adjust' under warranty.
Until I get this cross-computer/cellphone crap fixed, that's the story!
Apparently I need both my cell phone and pc to be replaced.
I can get on here with my ancient android Samsung slider on Verizon, but I can't get on ARFCOM at home with my 2005 Gateway and stuff with Comcast.
I will still look at the Charter Arms with what info you show and here's what I can tell you...
My first firearm. Mom gave it to me with only a few rounds fired.
I have the box, original grips, and the sales receipt.
Model: 13831 UNDERCOVER. BULLDOG.
SERIAL NUMBER: 60759
8/22/73.
$75.64 w/tax
I tried to mess with it reading about a s&W J-Frame article and had to send it to Charter to get it fixed!
N/C.
That was 10/25/95. I had an FFL at the time.
They listed it as 'clean gun and adjust' under warranty.
Until I get this cross-computer/cellphone crap fixed, that's the story!