madcratebuilder
New member
fingers has cornered the market on 2nd gens. I think he has more safes full of guns than I have guns.
Very interested in BP cap&ball revolvers
- Thread starter MrSardonicus
- Start date
Fingers McGee
New member
Quote MCB
Not even close. There are a bunch of models out there I don't have yet. It's just getting harder to find the ones I don't have.
Not even close. There are a bunch of models out there I don't have yet. It's just getting harder to find the ones I don't have.
Doodley squat
I don't know doodley squat about BP revolvers - however, I've been shootin' 'em for a few years now.
I was worried about fit and function after reading all about how crummy these Italian guns were.
After all - if its on the internet it must be true.
Cabela's was having a sale so I bit the bullet and ordered a Pietta 1851 Navy, steel frame.
Since I knew less than squat at that time, I got the one with a starter kit.
The day it arrived I hopped in my car and took off to give it a try.
Worked perfect. Bullets and fire and smoke came out. My targets were full of holes.
I gave Cabela's another couple hundred bucks and bought a 1860 army. Works just as good and looks just as nice as the first one they sold me.
I've also bought used BP revolvers from BP Revolver forum members with great results. I even bought one without even seeing a picture. Sure enough - even though it was Pietta's no-frills lowest priced gun, I was pleased.
Since that time I've picked up several more BP revolvers. For some reason, I'm partial to the Colt design, and since I had good luck with the first one, I've stuck with the Piettas.
Frankly, I think the quality and workmanship is better than can be reasonably expected considering how inexpensive these guns are.
In the past couple of years I've been teaching myself a bit of kitchen table gunsmithin'. So far all of my BP revolvers work better than when I got them. Casting your own balls is also a snap. Fun too!
If a knucklehead like me can do it, just about anyone can.
Don't worry too much. Just go ahead and buy your first revolver. Get a brand new one from Cabela's. If in the unlikely event that you get a lemon, they are really good about taking them back and sending out another.
As others have mentioned - you may be in for trouble. Chances are that you will run out of money before you run out of lust for more revolvers.
Have fun!
Carl
I don't know doodley squat about BP revolvers - however, I've been shootin' 'em for a few years now.
I was worried about fit and function after reading all about how crummy these Italian guns were.
After all - if its on the internet it must be true.
Cabela's was having a sale so I bit the bullet and ordered a Pietta 1851 Navy, steel frame.
Since I knew less than squat at that time, I got the one with a starter kit.
The day it arrived I hopped in my car and took off to give it a try.
Worked perfect. Bullets and fire and smoke came out. My targets were full of holes.
I gave Cabela's another couple hundred bucks and bought a 1860 army. Works just as good and looks just as nice as the first one they sold me.
I've also bought used BP revolvers from BP Revolver forum members with great results. I even bought one without even seeing a picture. Sure enough - even though it was Pietta's no-frills lowest priced gun, I was pleased.
Since that time I've picked up several more BP revolvers. For some reason, I'm partial to the Colt design, and since I had good luck with the first one, I've stuck with the Piettas.
Frankly, I think the quality and workmanship is better than can be reasonably expected considering how inexpensive these guns are.
In the past couple of years I've been teaching myself a bit of kitchen table gunsmithin'. So far all of my BP revolvers work better than when I got them. Casting your own balls is also a snap. Fun too!
If a knucklehead like me can do it, just about anyone can.
Don't worry too much. Just go ahead and buy your first revolver. Get a brand new one from Cabela's. If in the unlikely event that you get a lemon, they are really good about taking them back and sending out another.
As others have mentioned - you may be in for trouble. Chances are that you will run out of money before you run out of lust for more revolvers.
Have fun!
Carl
MrSardonicus
New member
ohhhhhhh no, I'm HOOKED!!!
Well, I did it...I went to the range to do some of my weekly target shootin this afternoon and a couple of gents that are customers of mine were at the CAS range makin a heck of a lot of noise. I approached with caution and told them of my desire to get a better understanding of bp revolvers and my interest in the colt army models.
I have never seen two guys more eager to have someone try out their guns!! One gent had an 1851 Colt Army just like I have been drooling over on the internet, as well as a Police model I think he said it was. The other feller had a matched pair of 58 Remingtons.
They showed me how to load em up and then let me touch off a couple of cylinder's-full. WOW. I had so much fun I completely forgot about my Walther PPK and didn't even get any practice in on it!!
While I really liked the look and function of the Remies, the Colt's just seemed to fit my grip better. I still don't think I can decide between the two so I'm just going to have to get one of each.
Man, I can still smell the corn bread!!!
Thanks for all the wonderful posts and the great pics!! Oh, and I was wondering about the one's Cabela's is selling, so thanks for that post. I would be interested to hear other testimonials on the bp revolvers Cabela's offers.
Well, I did it...I went to the range to do some of my weekly target shootin this afternoon and a couple of gents that are customers of mine were at the CAS range makin a heck of a lot of noise. I approached with caution and told them of my desire to get a better understanding of bp revolvers and my interest in the colt army models.
I have never seen two guys more eager to have someone try out their guns!! One gent had an 1851 Colt Army just like I have been drooling over on the internet, as well as a Police model I think he said it was. The other feller had a matched pair of 58 Remingtons.
They showed me how to load em up and then let me touch off a couple of cylinder's-full. WOW. I had so much fun I completely forgot about my Walther PPK and didn't even get any practice in on it!!
While I really liked the look and function of the Remies, the Colt's just seemed to fit my grip better. I still don't think I can decide between the two so I'm just going to have to get one of each.
Man, I can still smell the corn bread!!!
Thanks for all the wonderful posts and the great pics!! Oh, and I was wondering about the one's Cabela's is selling, so thanks for that post. I would be interested to hear other testimonials on the bp revolvers Cabela's offers.
Cabela's
I bought an 1858 from Cabela's that was terrible. Casting voids and just generally poor work. Obviously has slipped past the quality control folks. I called them and their response was "Send it back. We will send out a new one with no charge for shipping and a credit for your shipping back to us."
I did and got a perfect one in 3 days.
I have bought several from them since.
I bought an 1858 from Cabela's that was terrible. Casting voids and just generally poor work. Obviously has slipped past the quality control folks. I called them and their response was "Send it back. We will send out a new one with no charge for shipping and a credit for your shipping back to us."
I did and got a perfect one in 3 days.
I have bought several from them since.
CaptainCrossman
Moderator
to the OP- the full frame Remington pattern is the strongest "original" BP gun- along with the modern pattern Ruger Old Army which is really a modern 20th century black powder gun. I've had zero problems with my Remington, and it was a "kit" Navy Arms gun I bought at Kmart back in 1981, for only $85 ! I took it out 2 weeks ago, and shot it until I ran out of lead bullets- and was topping the chambers off with Pyrodex, then packing the ball in until it was below the cylinder rim. It kicked like a mule, shot accurated, yet that doesn't even phase it, that's just how strong the Remington design is.
By comparison, the Colt open top, I've pulled the cylinder pin out of the frame on (2) of those 1851 Navy brass frame guns- and that was using the recommended mild loadings- and had to buy (2) new steel frames to fix both guns. By all means, do NOT get a brass frame gun, if you want to shoot it a lot. If you do get a Colt pattern, get a steel frame.
Weaknesses of the Colt- they seem to jam quicker from black powder fouling than the Remington. Actually the Remington never jams, it gets a little tight after a while from fouling, but keeps going. The Colts eventually stop firing because the cylinder jams from blackpowder fouling, and need to be cleaned.
The wedges on the Colt guns tend to bend/wear with heavy use, and then the guns develop a lot of cylinder-to-barrel clearance. My "fix" was, make my own wedge from hardened forged steel- custom filed to fit and hold the gun together tightly- that fixed it. (for now)
One big advantage of the Colt- they are beautiful, graceful looking guns ! They definitely have the edge over the Remington in the looks dept. The open top design is very pleasing to the eye. The Colts also have a smoother hammer action/cocking and better trigger pull, and more comfortable grips, esp. the 1851/1861 Navy design grips.
In the end, the Remington is stronger and more reliable, the Colt better looking/better balanced/handling. If you want the best of both worlds, get an 1873 Uberti blackpowder Colt Peacemaker cap/ball gun. It's basically a Peacemaker that is converted to cap/ball.
By comparison, the Colt open top, I've pulled the cylinder pin out of the frame on (2) of those 1851 Navy brass frame guns- and that was using the recommended mild loadings- and had to buy (2) new steel frames to fix both guns. By all means, do NOT get a brass frame gun, if you want to shoot it a lot. If you do get a Colt pattern, get a steel frame.
Weaknesses of the Colt- they seem to jam quicker from black powder fouling than the Remington. Actually the Remington never jams, it gets a little tight after a while from fouling, but keeps going. The Colts eventually stop firing because the cylinder jams from blackpowder fouling, and need to be cleaned.
The wedges on the Colt guns tend to bend/wear with heavy use, and then the guns develop a lot of cylinder-to-barrel clearance. My "fix" was, make my own wedge from hardened forged steel- custom filed to fit and hold the gun together tightly- that fixed it. (for now)
One big advantage of the Colt- they are beautiful, graceful looking guns ! They definitely have the edge over the Remington in the looks dept. The open top design is very pleasing to the eye. The Colts also have a smoother hammer action/cocking and better trigger pull, and more comfortable grips, esp. the 1851/1861 Navy design grips.
In the end, the Remington is stronger and more reliable, the Colt better looking/better balanced/handling. If you want the best of both worlds, get an 1873 Uberti blackpowder Colt Peacemaker cap/ball gun. It's basically a Peacemaker that is converted to cap/ball.
D.Delozier
New member
I also have several pietta's not a bad one in the bunch,also a few uberti's again all nice guns. As far as I can remember I've only ever had 1 real pos and it was a very old Lyman I bought at a department store back in the late 70's but I was young and did'nt know much back then,and I still thought that it was the coolest thing ever!I actualy shot that thing to pieces.Been hooked ever since.
I've seen this statement fairly often but I've never been able to get anyone to show me the numbers. I suspect it's because of the top strap - people tend to see that as a structurally determinant design while the Colt open top appears to be simply cantilevered off the bottom. The problem with that is the Colt's rather massive cylinder pin, or arbor, which has a fixed joint at one end and at least a pinned, if not fixed, joint at the other. That member is much, much stronger than the Remington counterpart which is pinned/free and effectively takes no loads. At the very least the Remington and Colt designs appear to be structurally equivalent when one considers the entire system. I'm just not yet convinced the Remington is actually stronger; equal maybe, in fact probably, but not stronger.
madcratebuilder
New member
You need to look at the arbor on the Colts. That is it's structural strength. A 1858 may be as strong, but stronger, I doubt it.
The arbor tends to get pulled out from hammering the wedge in to tight. Brass frame revolvers are fine with in the recommended loads.
How big of hammer are you using to beat the wedge in with? There are many old Colts with the original wedge still in excellent condition.
Sounds like you need to address the arbor and frame fit. Once properly fit you only need thumb pressure to insert the wedge. The wedge should be an almost zero wear item.
Can't argue that.
Fingers McGee
New member
Quote Captain Crossman
I shoot Colt 1851 and 1861 Navies made by Pietta, Uberti & 2nd Gen Colt in CAS competitions on a regular basis. I just recently finished 15 stages over 3 days using a pair of 2nd Gen 1861 Navies. At the end of each days shooting, I wiped the outside of each pistol off and put the pistol back in it's gun rug & locked it in the Truck Vault. Each morning, I took them out of the gun rug, charged the cylinders and proceded to shoot 5 more stages. At the end of the match, the cylinder spun just as freely as it did when the match started. My lube of choice is Bore Butter and I make sure the arbor grooves are full.
I havent shot Remington repos in a number of years; but seen to remember removing the cylinder, wiping it and the cylinder pin down and adding lube every couple stages to keep it running. OK Hawg - Your turn.
+1 to Mykeal and MCBs comments also.
I shoot Colt 1851 and 1861 Navies made by Pietta, Uberti & 2nd Gen Colt in CAS competitions on a regular basis. I just recently finished 15 stages over 3 days using a pair of 2nd Gen 1861 Navies. At the end of each days shooting, I wiped the outside of each pistol off and put the pistol back in it's gun rug & locked it in the Truck Vault. Each morning, I took them out of the gun rug, charged the cylinders and proceded to shoot 5 more stages. At the end of the match, the cylinder spun just as freely as it did when the match started. My lube of choice is Bore Butter and I make sure the arbor grooves are full.
I havent shot Remington repos in a number of years; but seen to remember removing the cylinder, wiping it and the cylinder pin down and adding lube every couple stages to keep it running. OK Hawg - Your turn.
+1 to Mykeal and MCBs comments also.
Smokin_Gun
New member
The Colt/Rem statement is debatable...but what did Colt do in 1873 at the request of the Federal Gov?
And how many Open Top Cartridge Guns does Colt or anyone make today...actually the full frame design is more resilient ... and that lil' arbor lock pin don't snap nor the weld crack or break... in it's day and with C&B they were surely close...
"Sometimes your the Bug sometimes the Windshield"
And how many Open Top Cartridge Guns does Colt or anyone make today...actually the full frame design is more resilient ... and that lil' arbor lock pin don't snap nor the weld crack or break... in it's day and with C&B they were surely close...
"Sometimes your the Bug sometimes the Windshield"
olmontanaboy
New member
I'd like to comment on Cabela's customer service, OUTSTANDING. I'm a picky guy, I admit it, and buying anything mail order is a gamble so I avoid it if possible. However if I can't "I pays my money and takes my chances" like everyone else. Cabela's has done right by me on more than one occasion.
I wish they would carry Uberti along with the Pietta line. I have both and think their both great guns. I don't care for all that stamping on the Pietta barrels and am willing to pay a little more for the Uberti not to have it staring me in the face :barf: The Walker that Cabela's carries is a Uberti the rest I believe are Piettas. That said I think the Pietta case colors are better.
I wish they would carry Uberti along with the Pietta line. I have both and think their both great guns. I don't care for all that stamping on the Pietta barrels and am willing to pay a little more for the Uberti not to have it staring me in the face :barf: The Walker that Cabela's carries is a Uberti the rest I believe are Piettas. That said I think the Pietta case colors are better.
madcratebuilder
New member
I think the Colt open top biggest weakness is the wedge. If it's loose you sure can beat things up. Plus the barrel/arbor fit is pretty critical. I haven't managed to shoot an arbor loose yet....."request of the Federal Gov?" You trust them?
Fingers McGee
New member
Quote SG:
I believe that the only thing the Federal Government requested was a new pistol to replace the 1860 Army. Specs were that it was to be a single action, 6 shot revolver that fired a .45 caliber metallic cartridge.
William Mason had started working on the SAA in 1871 (which Colt initially called the New Model Army Metallic Cartridge Revolving Pistol). and placed samples in the hands of the Army Ordinance Department in Nov 1872. Smith and Wesson and Colt were the only companies that had revolvers that were tested & Colt won an initial contract for 8,000 pistols in 1873
I believe that the only thing the Federal Government requested was a new pistol to replace the 1860 Army. Specs were that it was to be a single action, 6 shot revolver that fired a .45 caliber metallic cartridge.
William Mason had started working on the SAA in 1871 (which Colt initially called the New Model Army Metallic Cartridge Revolving Pistol). and placed samples in the hands of the Army Ordinance Department in Nov 1872. Smith and Wesson and Colt were the only companies that had revolvers that were tested & Colt won an initial contract for 8,000 pistols in 1873
Smokin_Gun
New member
Then or Now? Either way when I was a a Soldier and if I were then what choice would I have?
Trust is relative in the Military ... I'm still around, and In God I Trust 8O)
Do I trust the Government know? LoL! Are you pullin' my walker?
Smokin_Gun
New member
Like I said what did Colt do at the request of the Federal Government?
(Made 8,000 Colt 1873 SAA full framed Revolvers...) Right?
Fingers McGee
New member
They submitted pistols for testing. Fed gov't did not specify solid frame. Smith & Wesson submitted the break top American.