Very dreary and possibly unsettling thread

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Playboypenguin

Moderator
I am about to embark on a new business opportunity. I am opening a cocktail lounge/martini bar with a friend.

I know it is often considered bad taste to discuss potentially dealdly situations and I hope noone sees this as a paranoid or SHTF type thread.

My friend is one of very few people that knows I carry a firearm so we have discussed what my attitudes would be about allowing patrons and employees to carry. I will discuss that in another thread but not here. This thread is to discuss and idea I had that I am not too sure about.

I have known bars that have been robbed in the past where the employees were forced into the back room until the robbery was complete and then shot.

Because of this I have thought of placing a electronic combo safe in the back room with a firearm in it.

My instruction would be to retrieve the gun and stay put if ordered into the back then left alone. Do not exit the room until the coast was clear and in no way engage the robbers unless they returned with intent to harm you. The gun would be solely for their personal protection and not to be a hero and try to protect property.

I would also require all employees to take the oregon handgun safety course at the cost of the company.

I will still have to work out the legal ramifications of this to even see if it is possible but it is just something I have been kicking around.

Any thoughts from the legal standpoint will be covered by our lawyer but are still welcome here. However I am more interested in what the thoughts of people on here would be from the viewpoint of them being the employee. Would this be something you approved of or not?
 
Between the threat of being robbed and all of my employees having access to a gun that I provided, I'll risk being robbed. Way too much liability. I'd transfer that liability to paid security/off-duty police officers, personally.
 
I'd say to encourage your employees to ccw but NOT let them use YOUR gun. the armature lawyer in me says you are more at fault if your employee shoots a robber than if a robber shoots your employee.

you are right to say a gun would be for self defense, not defense of property. self defense of your employees is not your responsibility.
 
Carry in a martini bar

Check you local laws, or state laws pertaining to carry in an establishment that serves alcohol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. In ohio, unless the law just changed, it's a felony.
Mickey
 
Personally I would go with an armed guard from a reputable company to patrol your parking lot.
It would be a huge visual deterrent.
 
Security companies

All the numbers I have read locally have shown security companies to not be worth a hill of beans. They bars that have them have no less likelihood of being robbed according to local statistics. As for having an armed guard on staff, they cost too much and open you up to more liability than if an employee shot someone. According to our lawyer an armed guard is like carrying around a cocked revolver. If it goes off it is much easier for the victim to make it look like you were looking for a reason to shoot someone.
 
If you are allowed to CCW in a bar in your state then I would inform employees of the risks you are worried about and let them know they have the option to carry. This puts the choice to be prepared in their hands where it should be. I would not however leave a gun in the back where any of the employees can get to it simply because you will not know just how trustworthy all of your workers are.
 
What are you going to do when the gun disappears and nobody knows anything about it?
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Not likely happen. There is not a square inch of the place where you are not under constant video surveilance from at least two different angles.

I am also reluctant to encourage workers to carry a pistol. In fact we were told by our lawyer we should have an official policy against it. And as I stated. I am not wanting to discuss my feelings about employees carrying. I am asking about wether this situation I spoke of would make you feel more or less safe as an employee.
 
Remember to put a button under the counter. Can be installed as part of your security system. You hit the button, alarm goes off and cops are called. As for giving all of your employees access to your gun with instructions and permision to use it--huge liability you don't want.
 
Wildalaska

They come into rob give em the money

Then they shoot you.

Just because you do everything they say does not mean they won't shoot you or otherwise do you harm. How many times has someone done everything their attacker tells them and they get killed anyway? Quite often. Where I live there is a local case where a young woman was abducted by a man who was recently released from prison. She did everything he told here to do, and was rapped, murdered, and dumped in a ditch. He was recently sentenced to death for the crime.

Would she have been better off to resist? Probably.

How to respond to an attack is not a simple yes and no answer. Sometimes it is better to do what they say, sometimes it is better to resist any way you can.

Personaly, I would not leave a gun in the safe but instead carry it on you. I am no lawyer, but I would not forbid your employees from CCW if they want to. But let them know that they better not screw up if they do carry.

/My advice, it's worth what you paid for it.
 
In most states, the business owner is not prohibited from carrying a gun in his own business. Your local laws may vary.

No, to having a gun always available to employees. By providing the gun you are likely to incur some liability if an employee uses it, correctly or not. Likewise, a dishonest or desperate employee may steal it. If so, you may never recover the gun and be exposed to liability at a later time.

Your lawyer actually recommended active discouragement of employees having a firearm? Ask your lawyer if you were robbed three times in 6 weeks and each time an employee was seriously injured, if the next time it happens you might have some kind of liability. I would neither put it into the rules nor encourage it.

You'll have to ask your lawyer what your liability would be IF you allowed an employee with a CCW to carry, especially if they had a restraining order against a former spouse etc.

Don't be surprised if your lawyer advises you to fire anyone who has even a TRO against an abusive/stalking spouse or S.O. Some lawyers are now advising this "to protect against liability suits" based on the idea that keeping the TRO holder at work subject others to potential harm. I personally believe that advice violates the rights of the employee to avail themselves of the legal process and is, at the very least, amoral and unethical.

You already have a video system, but get a couple of dummy camera units and mount them to deter would be robbers. Your real video system should be recording on equipment in a very secure area or in an area not accessible directly from your business to prevent goblins from destroying it during the robbery.
 
Any thoughts from the legal standpoint will be covered by our lawyer but are still welcome here.
Click to expand...

- Aside from the legal standpoint, you may wish to consult with your insurance agent. My wife and I own 3 rentals. We've had our insurance cancelled twice so far - and counting - over the most piddly things.

One tenant bought her kids a trampoline. Allstate did a drive by of the property and pitched a hissy fit about it. All out of the blue we got a notice of cancellation w/no reason given. When we finally tracked down our agent (why are insurance agent so hard to find when you need them, but such a nusance when you don't???) he told us that the trampoline was the reason.
We had the tenant remove it, and our policy was reinstated.

The second time we had it cancelled was because a tree limb had grown over the top of one of the houses! Duh! imagine that,,,,trees grow. Bad tree - no cookie. We were going to have the tree removed anyhow, so we had it cut down, then called the agent and said "What tree?"
When they went to take a second look, the tree was gone ;).
So was our association with the agent & Allstate. We switched to Nationwide - all 8 policies.
pffffft - didn't even phase 'em to lose the business.

NW isn't much better. Our agent called us and said we have to remove the woodburning fireplace from our newest rental by January or we're cancelled.
We've told him over and over that it isn't a "woodburner", it's a gas stove with the gasline disconnected.
No dice. The county tax record says WB - so that's all they go by.
 
I agree that the gun in the safe would not be a good idea. Also, given employee turnover, the Oregon handgun safety course might become a substantial expense over time.
What can you do to reduce the establishment's value to a robber? Night deposits, encourage credit card use, etc.
 
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