Vacuum Sealing a Pistol For Long Term Storage??

I will try to type slower, close the lid on an ammo can then submerge in water, it will help if the water is clear then check for bubbles, to understand what is happening fill the bath tub with water and place you arm in the water to beyond the elbow, nothing? Then place a plastic garbage bag on the other arm and place the arm with the bag in the tub, the pressure of the water can be felt while the bag is being pressed against the skin,

Back to the ammo can that is submerged, retrieve it then open, the can should be dry inside, now start over by reading the instructions, use an inert gas to fill the can, the gas is heavier than air, no air (atmosphere) no moisture.

Heat the can (do not cook it), air is elastic, it flows, can be compressed, as it is compressed moisture is squeezed out, as it is compressed air looses it's ability to hold water, as it expands it;s ability to support moisture increases, something like the weather report in Houston "Relative humidity is 100%" with that kind of report there is no reason to have windows to look out when checking the weather, it's raining. and in Houston you sweat on hot days, the air around you called ( with heat called ambient) will not absorb more moisture because the air is saturated and will not hold or support more moisture, so wipe the sweat or get a fan, or A/C.

Now to the point of moisture and rust, moisture in the air is good, the problem comes when the cools and shrinks, the shrinking causes moisture to fall out, if the moisture falls on metal RUST! Heating the ammo can and closing the can while warm/hot seals the can with an atmosphere that is dryer than the desert.

Vacuum and moisture, moisture boils at 0 degree F with a vacuum of or at near 32 inches of vacuum, not perfect but close. So if moisture is a problem in a closed system get a vacuum pump and boil the water (moisture) out while even though the ambient heat around your head and closed system is 60 degrees Fahrenheit.

I have opened many ammo cans that have been closed for 50 years with the 'NEW CAN' smell sealed inside, some were closed while in a higher altitude and made the 'swush' sound made when breaking a vacuum, A pressure inside the can would have aided in opening the can.

Or purchase a safe that is not designed for storing guns.

The question was about A (one) gun, I say seal it and forget it in an ammo can.

I have 4 vacuum pumps, 2 recovery, 1 commercial and one domestic, I would have no reservation about installing fittings on a 50 cal can for protection against the atmosphere, and on the delux model I would install a vacuum gage for monetering, with the flat sides I would not get carried away.

F. Guffey
 
Mr. Guffy, I think you may have gotten the wrong impression from my post.

I stated this about your ammo can method:

An ammo can will not really help you out either. A ammo can when packed from the factory. They are nearly airtight, however when you pack anything into one you trap in all the moisture and air of the environment in which you latch it shut.
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So the correction to my concept of your ammo can method is this:

1) Purchase ammo can
2) Test ammo can in water
3) purchase inert gas
3) flush can with inert gas
4) heat the can to separate air/moisture
5) purchase vacuum packer/bags
6) vacuum pack weapon to 32 inHg?


One issue I have with this is step #3
its true that you can use the technique used by the military of whats called "modified atmosphere packaging" by using a gas to flush the can before you store your weapon in it. However, without very strict control and testing methods you really have no idea if your efforts to flush the air out of the can are effective. Furthermore, by using "any inert gas" as you suggest you actually won't be accomplishing as much as the military does when they conduct MAP using nitrogen, which acts as a VCI. To support this, argument take a look at some of the work that my company has done with C-130 engines: http://www.heritagepackaging.com/pages/c-130-qec-quick-engine-change-kit

you should also note that after we flush the engine with nitrogen we have a sensor port for the environment to be tested repeatedly to ensure that the nitrogen is in fact within the package and not leaking.


Now the bigger issue here that I have with this ammo can process is threefold:
#1 packing efficiency (how much effort and time is spent packing your weapon?)
#2 Cost. (ammo can, inert gas, vacuum sealer, vacuum bags)
#3 Resealability if the weapon is removed

So take on one had a velco closure, foil barrier, VCI bag, and on the other hand this ammo can method.

For the bag:
-It takes seconds to open the bag and slide in your weapon
-total cost is less than $10 for a pistol
-You can let it sit for over 10 years OR you can open it up in 10 minutes and when done with the weapon slide it right back in.

The reason why the VCI technology was developed was to make it cheaper, quicker, and more rust proof for the military to store weapons.

In fact, I'm so confident that the $10 VCI method is more efficient that I'll include your ammo can method in an experiment I'm setting up for our facebook page where we use a bare/raw test samples of 1018 steel and pack them using various "storage" techniques that we've seen gun enthusiasts use. What do you think?
 
I will type slower, and again I have no motive, I have nothing to sell, for me being fair and objective is easy, I have nothing to gain one way or the other.

You have gone from closing the lid to the availability and difficulty to finding materials but still omitting or ignoring information, ammo can and heat, got a stove?, gas or electric, got a Colman stove? etc., heat the can, do not cook it, place what ever in the can, close the can, forget the gage, measure the width of the can before heating and after cooling, a vacuum will cause the can to shrink/crush to indicate a seal, then apply the 'LEAVER POLICY' as long as the can has a slight crush 'LEAVER' that way, but if the can makes the similar sound to an oil squirt can when the bottom is pushed when the bo sides are is pushed in, the can has lost it's seal.

What do I think about a test performed by you that would not benefit you? Because you choose to ignore techniques and or information when you posted your sales pitch, I would not trust the results of your test.

F. Guffey
 
and out of 39 responses the only one that had value and or merit was yours, this happens when their is a financial gain involved.

F. Guffey
 
Without reading all the previous posts (whats the point) I say keep it in a safe place & wipe it down & inspect it every so often-
Why have a gun you cant shoot & fondle :confused:
 
out of 39 responses the only one that had value and or merit was yours, this happens when their is a financial gain involved.
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I refuse to be engaged in an argument with you, If you want to look at the information that I posted and have an educated discussion I would be happy to but so far you have ignored my main points.

With one point being that VCI technology is less expensive and more dependable than your method I'd like to think that all 39 people who responded can make a financial gain by reading my information and making the most cost-beneficial choice.

I am not on here to sell products but rather to provide some technical discussion as to a storage/preservation technique that most people are not aware of or educated about.
 
If you're using a food grade vacuum, my homemade deer goetta didn't hold a seal for more than a few months. I don't think I'd trust a shootin' iron to it...
 
If you're using a food grade vacuum, my homemade deer goetta didn't hold a seal for more than a few months. I don't think I'd trust a shootin' iron to it...
Click to expand...

What material are you using?
 
As bluetrain noted above, the military often uses special barrier paper cut to size and sealed with an iron. Dessicant is often used as well. Finally the air is removed with a vacuum cleaner and the hose opening is sealed shut. We used to employ this process frequently for certain high value components and parts as well as weapons. Worked great. The stuff is pretty expensive for occasional use at the consumer level. Some of the purpose made gun bags will do the job as will an ammo can in good shape.

For practicality I like a Pelican case of the appropriate size. Easy access, lots of physical protection, and water/air tight. Great stuff. See here:
http://www.pelican-case.com/1400.html
I'd oil the gun, wrap it a piece of old undershirt and stick it in the Pelican. Good to go.
 
I have a camera which uses film. (Oh, NO!. Not film?? How quaint. Do they still make that stuff?)

Film should be stored in a cool, dry place. The professional photographers whom I know store their film in the refrigerator. When they take out some to use they allow it to come to room temperature before opening the container.

If you doubt a refrigerator’s dryness, or a freezer, ask your wife.

If enough of us start storing guns there we might be able to have Sears come out with a model which includes:
Ice maker
Vegetable bin
Meat drawer
Gun drawer
Butter keeper

John: “Bill, let’s go to the range and pop a few rounds.”
Bill: “Sure thing, John. Wait while I defrost my Python.”
 
Good Lord! Just go to Ace Hardware, like I said before, get a can of LPS 3, spary your gun down and put it in a ziplock bag. Trust me, mine have endured for years undamaged, both in south Florida and Arizona, which, contrary to popular myth, does have a rainy season with plenty of humidity.
 
Let me tell you what has been practiced by professional
photographers for the last fifty years.
First locate a hi quality tupperware container with good
fitting snap on lid that will hold a slight vacuum when you
press down on lid when sealing.
Second, locate the professional dessicant blocks or bags that come in
various sizes. (EBAT) These chemicals absorb oxygen and moisture
in the air over time and in order to dry them you simply bake them
in an oven at 350 degrees.

Sure the tupperware containers allow some vapor pass through
but only at a slow rate and the dessicant packages can accumulate
any transmission for at least five years depending on the size of the
container and the dessicant package. Whenever you think you want
to remove any moisture vapor that may have leaked in simply
open container, bake the dessicant package ( it works like a sponge )
to dry it out and then reseal.

IF you DONT LIKE this idea, fill the tupperware with OIL of any kind
and then submerge your pistol and then apply tupperware top.

I GUARANTEE this will work. So what, in fifty years you have to shake
the oil off and wash it somehow. The oil submerged method btw
was not from the photographers. (BTW, might want to remove grips 1st)

PS. I have a friend with a brand new 1967 Corvette sealed in
polyetheleyne film with a vacuum hose nozzle on one end and
another port on the other end. Every couple of years,
he vacuums as much air as he can from the enclosure
and then while vacuuming, he takes a CO2 fire extinguisher
and blows into the other end of the package.
Basically the idea of course is to store the car in a pure
CO2 environment to prevent oxidation. This is pretty
wild but it is working well in South Louisiana Swamp Land.
 
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