VA: might get illegally shot by PD for possessing license to carry

Common courtesy? I don't think so. It is introducing an utterly irrelevant, and potentially inflammatory, element into the exchange.

If asked, I'll answer honestly. If not asked, I say nothing. Believe me, if the officer has a concern, he'll ask. It's worked so far. . . even in gun-hating Fairfax County.

(btw, in my many contacts with FCPD, I have never personally had a negative experience - I don't count getting a well-deserved ticket any grounds for complaint.)

Bob James
 
the driver was looking for a fight, he acted very immaturely.

would it have been so bad if just said "ok" and let it go?
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Just to review, it was the officer who first asked him whether he had a gun, and then asked why he did not disclose that information.

Asking why he did not disclose that information was NOT done in the line of duty, as there is no law to be enforced about that question. It was a personal inquiry, meant to impose the officer's personal belief about how the law SHOULD read IN HIS OPINION on the motorist.

With that in mind, who was looking for a fight again?
 
The officers comment was 100% flawed.

Here are the possible 2 scenarios:

1) He doesn't tell the officer he has a gun. The officer runs his plate and sees he is a CCP holder and therefore might be legally carrying a gun. The man gets out of his car against the officers orders.


2) He tells the officer he has a gun. Now the officer KNOWS he is legally carrying a gun. The man gets out of his car against the officers orders.


Which scenario should make the officer feel more threatened??? He either MIGHT be legally carrying or he IS legally carrying. Reminds me of the Wookie defense, just don't make no sense.

I think both were argumentative. The officer obviously didn't feel threatened because he sat there and argued with the guy. The guy who got pulled over should have just said he disagreed with him and left, he could then file a complaint with the dept. over the insane claim they can shoot you for getting out of the car simply because you have a carry permit.
 
Back when my CCW was active I was stopped several times at checkpoints (I've got a BAD habit of forgetting to get my stinking car inspected).

Never once did I tell an officer I had a gun on me, and never once was I even asked.
 
One last comment on this from me...

I think the guy was upset for the wrong reasons. He didn't like that the cop "criticized" him. Who cares if the cop wants to criticize you? He acknowledged it was legal, but he THOUGHT it was better to do it a different way. They are entitled to an opinion as long as they aren't rude about it (which he wasn't really).

He should have been upset over the REASON the cop gave for his opinion on the matter. The idea they are justified in shooting someone who gets out of their car simply because they have a carry permit. As the guy mentioned... police are trained to assume EVERYONE might have a weapon. Why should having a permit change anything?
 
Yes, there are some procedural errors on the officers part. By VA law the officer could and should have asked if the person in question had any weapons in the vehicle or on his person. Once that question had been asked the citizen must divulge if they are in fact armed. This way there would have been no surprise about there being a CHP holder and his concealed handgun.

Now if this question had been asked and then the officer told the CHP holder to step outside the vehicle and to remove his weapon or any other similar order for that matter. What would the citizen then do? By some of the responses so far, it would seem that they would become argumentative and non compliant. Where does this course of action lead? There could be an unsatisfactory conclusion to this situation. Who do you think would be held accountable for such an outcome?

Officers are taught to control a situation, when or if they believe that said situation is not under their control, things can escalate to levels where force might be applied. That level of force will no doubt be in accordance to the level of the perceived threat. A man armed with a handgun, legal or not, can be pretty sure to find that level of force being very high.(read: You will most likely get shot and/or killed.)

The carrying of concealed handguns is deadly serious and should be treated as such. Not everyone is comfortable being around other folks with weapons, legal or otherwise. Knowing this, we should do our best to ease their fears, at least for the duration of our interaction with them. I can agree that the officer shouldn't have said that he would shoot the CHP holder, conversely the CHP holder should know that, since he is armed, there is no longer any wiggle room when dealing with anyone who either knows/believes or is about to know or justifiably believes that they are armed. One armed man getting an attitude with another, who is armed or believed to be armed, isn't very intelligent to say the least. Especially if one of those men is charged with being an agent of the law. The deck is stacked.

If one cannot deal with the serious implications and potential ramifications involved in carrying a firearm, perhaps they shouldn't carry.

Personally this situation appears to be a case of two wrongs and a case of it taking two to tango. Nothing good could come of it and it is good that nothing bad came of it. Both the LEO and CHP holder have some reflecting upon themselves to do. I am glad that nothing bad happened and that this was nothing more than a ruffling of feathers on both parties parts. Live and learn.

Oddly enough, Fairfax doesn't allow open carry, yet here in southern VA we do. It would be nice to have all people on the same page and not have any fears of citizens who carry firearms lawfully. Sadly it probably isn't going to happen in this culture of fear that we seem to be cultivating amongst ourselves. Agreeing to disagree is about as good as it is going to get. Having attitudes and carrying guns isn't a good formula for a happy ending, IMO.
 
If you told a police officer that he'd be shot for approaching your vehicle with a gun, you'd be in prison.... No questions asked.

The recorder was kind of a smart @ss, cuz he knew he was recording it, but really... the officer threatened him - I don't think any one could listen to it and deny that.
 
Concur with the fact that the officer was out of line, but so was the CCP holder. My wife is law enforcement and controlling the situation should be one of the first things they do...so, I say Mrs. Manners training for both of them. This is a classic case of both parties not making a bad situation any better.
 
"if you had gotten out of the car, you would have been shot"

..lol a man steps out of his car, is a CCW holder, and the cop shoots him, but doesn't have a gun in his hands.. That cop will last a long time.:rolleyes:

Clearly, the cop is power strung.
 
Now if this question had been asked and then the officer told the CHP holder to step outside the vehicle and to remove his weapon or any other similar order for that matter. What would the citizen then do? By some of the responses so far, it would seem that they would become argumentative and non compliant.
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Which responses point to that kind of reaction? I did not get that impression from anyone.

Speaking for myself, I would comply if an officer asked for my gun. I'm not sure why an officer might do that, but it really wouldn't bother me. I would figure he would just give it back in a few minutes, so no big deal.

My only reservation would be it is usually a Glock and has a round in the chamber, and too many cops don't seem to know Jeff Cooper's Rule 3, which is an especially important rule with Glocks. I would be fine with handing over the gun if holstered, but if an officer saw some reason to take it out of the holster, I would make sure to warn him it was ready to fire and try to stay out from in front of it if he doesn't exhibit good muzzle control.
 
Which responses point to that kind of reaction? I did not get that impression from anyone.

See post #18.

I suppose once in that circumstance the opinion might change, then again it may not. Either way we can only be responsible for our own choices and actions in the end run.
 
Ok I listened

The driver at the beginning was a little bit of a smart ass, but the officer was completely wrong. He basically threatened the citizen. He did not suggest it, he said that he would have...that is not a suggestion, and he in no way shape or form asked the citizen if he had any weaponry which is a standard question around here. He then proceeded to threaten and criticize the gentleman.

Terrible, terrible
 
Felony?

Isn't it a felony to threaten to kill someone illegally? Or at least misdemeanor Assault? Maybe the Officer should be facing charges like he enjoys applying to others?
 
Two of a kind.

That whole thing sounded like a battle-royale between a pair of idiots that may well have been worthy of a lawn chair and some popcorn as first class Jerry Springer-style entertainment.

The cop made armed citizens look bad, the driver made the cop look bad. The cop made other cops look bad, the citizen made the rest of us look like whackos.
No good came from either side of that incident. The most unfortunate bit being that it will likely get way more press than it really warrants, and will be twisted to fit the agenda of whoever publicizes it.
Damn shame really.
 
I also listened to the entire conversation. The driver was initially courteous and cooperative. The police officer was waaaaay out of line in "suggesting" that the driver would have been shot had he exited the car because he did not disclose he was carrying (even without a weapon in hand). The driver would have been no imminent threat and it would have been criminal for the officer to shoot him. In addition, the officer could not have known the driver was armed, he could only suspect the driver to be armed.

Having said all that, the driver did go on a bit too much about whether the comment was a suggestion or a comment. This doesn't excuse the officer. The officer was taking the position that some police take -- only the police should be armed. This is the attitude which led to the unlawful confiscation of firearms following Hurricane Katrina. I sometimes work with police and hold them generally in high esteem. This officer was out of line.
 
I'm in a mandatory notification state...even if I weren't handing the cop your DL, CHL, informing them of the presence of a weapon and asking what we need to do to make everyone feel comfortable (I don't want an edgy cop standing with his weapon in my face) is some good, sound common sense.

You may not go to jail if you don't (unless your local laws dictate you have to) but if I were a cop I'd want people to notify me. I have been stopped twice, both times armed. One of these dummies actually took my weapon to their car, field striped it, and gave it back to me in pieces with my bullets in a little baggie...the other guy was pretty cool and said well if it's concealed you're OK with me. The first guy gave me a ticket, the other guy didn't.

Let's remember that not all policemen are cool well adjusted guys...there is a small number of them that were the nerds and geeks of the high school who got into LE so they could have POWER. In the latter case you're screwed even if you have no gun and the former will usually be cool with you.
 
1. Fairfax, as a municipality of Virginia, has no say so in open carry, or any type of carry other than to "shall issue" CHPs. They may have a law on the books, but it is void.

2. Police officers are trained to be on the lookout for weapons, especially during traffic stops. They should, and do, assume all cars have weapons until they know otherwise. So, I don't see where having that assumption confirmed changes much of anything.

3. What about CHP holders who borrow someone else's vehicle? They get a free pass?

4. What about other people who borrow CHP holder's vehicle? Do they get shot for exiting their vehicle unarmed?

5. Now if we could just make a law that everyone must tell the officer if they are armed, then when the officer isn't told, he can safely assume there are no weapons?

In summary, the LEO is full of horse hockey and needs to have his jewels roasted over a public fire.
 
Oddly enough, Fairfax doesn't allow open carry
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As was stated above, open carry is perfectly legal in Fairfax County as in all other Virginia Counties and Cities due to the State's pre-emption statute.

Thankfully, local governments are no longer allowed to create thier own patchwork system of obscure local laws.

And that is really the problem with Virginia municipalities like Fairfax County. There is still a very strong holdover attitude that they "ought" to be able to make thier own rules regardless of what the State law mandates.
 
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