VA: might get illegally shot by PD for possessing license to carry

I took the time to listen. The driver was obnoxious, supercilious and antics like his are a disservice to gun owners. He lacks common courtesy.

My position...common courtesy mandates you tell a cop that you have a gun.

Common courtesy.

And quite frankly I hope they change the law in VA to mandate notification.

Every little kiddie game like this guy played adds one more anti gunner to the ranks.

WildwhatdothelesheresayAlaska TM
 
I also took the time to listen.

The guy was polite as the officer asked him for his license and asked him to remain in the car, then he sat for 5 or 6 minutes waiting. When the officer came back to the car, he asked, "Do you have your weapon on you?"

The guy replied that he did.

The officer asked, "Well why didn't you tell me that initially?"

The guy said, "Because there's no requirement to notify in Virginia."

The officer said that was correct, but then said that once he saw he was dealing with an armed concealed weapons permit holder, he would have shot him had he gotten out of the car.

At that point, the conversation started to heat up, but whose fault was that? If it is so important to notify the police that you are lawfully carrying a concealed weapon, why is it not in the law? It sounds like the cop was willing to use deadly force to enforce his standards of polite conduct.

I'm sick of the insulting assumption among anti gun people that concealed weapons permit holders are more dangerous than people who do not choose to get a permit and carry a weapon.
 
The Fairfax County, VA Government has a long history of antagonism towards citizens who are carrying handguns, whether open or concealed. This officer's attitude is typical of his department unfortunately.

Check out the Virginia Citizen's defense league website under thier VA-Alert/Update archives for some of the past incidents.

http://www.vcdl.org

It's pretty sad that a citizen must make a recording of a traffic stop in order to ensure proper proceedure and common courtesy.

Virginia is well on its way towards becoming a blue State on the Illinois model. this is where one very liberal part of the State, i.e, the northern Virginia suburbs around D.C., like Fairfax County, foist thier anti-gun ignorance off on the rest of the State.

I always am left wondering why, when the NRA headquarters is located IN Fairfax County, VA, they don't get more involved in redressing local incidents like this.
 
Because it's the "National" Rifle Association and they can't be everything to everybody in the country?

Meanwhile, I thought everyone knew to stay in the car when pulled over. Of course, my father was a State Trooper when I was little so I guess I had a head start on learning how to act.

And Fairfax is not taking over the rest of the state, no matter how important they think they are up there sitting in traffic for hours near the Beltway. :)

John
Member www.vcdl.org
NRA Patron
 
Suggestion vs. criticism?

If anyone was out of line in this convo, it was the officer. Threatening to shoot a motorist if he exited his car, and then claiming that was a "suggestion"? Come on...:p

If the officer is so fixated, why not run the plate prior to approaching the vehicle? Would not this SOP identify ccl holders, with no question? Officer friendly suggestion could then escalate to felony stop protocol to alleviate his security concerns.

I'm noticing that when someone expresses dissatisfaction with an aspect of law enforcement on a discussion board, he's admonished with "quit whining and work to change the law". Yet, when the shoe's on the other foot, citizens are expected to comply with unpublished standards under the ruse of "common courtesy"; or face the consequences.

Seems like a double standard, nothing new.
 
Listened to the recording.

The officer didn't seem to be threatening the CHP holder, he was advising the citizen. It might be an over reaction on the part of the officer, but he cannot make the assumption that the CHP holder is always going to be a compliant subject. If the individual that was told to remain in his vehicle didn't comply with his order. That would show and indication that the suspect was defiant. To what further extent would the citizen carry his defiance? Knowing that he was armed after running his licence would give and should give one concern for their safety. That concern could also lead the officer to drawing his weapon. A chain of events that would possibly lead to a fire fight.

Knowing one of my best friends for 20+ years only lets me know how he thinks, previous knowledge of the him in no way can tell me what he may be thinking. Now if I ran into a person that I have never met, I can know neither and it puts me in a situation where I must be very careful if they are armed.

I know we all like to think that a person who has passed a background check is absolutely a safe a honest citizen to trust. There are background checks done on soldiers and other agents of the government. Those background checks don't guarantee that the person in question won't act in a manner contrary to their previous behavior. Given a proper set of circumstances some pretty unusual behavior can occur. Think back to the soldier that was throwing live grenades into his own troops tents over in Iraq. His behavior was unexpected and despicable but it did happen.

Past behavior is a potential indicator of future behavior, however it isn't a infallible indicator of a persons behavior. It would be a prudent measure to err on the side of caution when dealing with any person who is armed, even if it is the Pope or Peter an Apostle of Christ. We are talking about self preservation here. Are we not? No regulation or procedure is going to give a 100% predictable outcome to a situation involving the human factor.

The best thing to do when dealing with an officer of the law is to comply and help him feel at ease to the best of your ability. If that requires you to allow him to disarm you for a traffic stop, it may be a good idea for your health and well being. I know it is uncomfortable to do so, but is taking a bullet for some sense of pride that one has is foolishness. So long as one stays within the law and also keeps a situation from getting out of hand it will go well.

Just look at how this situation ended. A warning and nothing more, even though by law the officer could have issued a ticket for improper equipment.
The CHP holder should have taken the advice with a grain of salt and went his way, rather than arguing semantics with the officer in question. Talking theory, philosophy, interpretation of the law and other such things to this officer after he was off duty might be a better set of circumstances. There is a time and place for everything. This wasn't the time or the place, IMO.
 
In NH, the CCW database is not linked at all to DMV. There's also no notification required.

We've never had a problem.
 
If the individual that was told to remain in his vehicle didn't comply with his order. That would show and indication that the suspect was defiant.
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Or an indication that the subject ate some bad chicken and didn't want to barf all over the inside of his car.

Or an indication that the subject had been sitting roadside for 6 minutes waiting for a check over a broken tail light while his father was being dying at the hospital, and he really wanted to communicate the urgency of the situation to the officer.
 
BTW, do they really think that a felon who would harm the officer would even bother having a CCW license for their stolen or illegally purchased fo-tay stuffed under the seat?
 
The guy was polite as the officer asked him for his license and asked him to remain in the car, then he sat for 5 or 6 minutes waiting. When the officer came back to the car, he asked, "Do you have your weapon on you?"

The guy replied that he did.

The officer asked, "Well why didn't you tell me that initially?"

The guy said, "Because there's no requirement to notify in Virginia."

The officer said that was correct, but then said that once he saw he was dealing with an armed concealed weapons permit holder, he would have shot him had he gotten out of the car.
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All the LEO had to do when he first approached the driver was ask if he were packin', then deal appropriately with the "threat" to himself.:confused:
 
My position...common courtesy mandates you tell a cop that you have a gun.
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Should I also tell the checkout person at Mega Lo Mart? It's just as relevant to his job that I am carrying a gun.

I have had three interactions with police since getting my CWP. In the first, I was speeding, a cop stopped me, and he gave me a ticket. I didn't mention my gun because it was not relevant to the situation were were in at the time. In the second, a state trooper stopped me because a headlight was out. I showed him that I had the new light, and told him I was on my way home to install it. He did not ask whether I had a gun, and I did not mention it. Again, irrelevant. He gave me a warning. In the third case, I had made an illegal U turn. When I got out my license, the officer saw that the next thing down in my wallet was a CWP, and he did ask whether I had a gun. I told him I did, told him where it was, and that was the end of it.

I think officers should assume anyone they deal with might be armed and might start shooting at any moment, whether or not the person has a concealed weapons permit. The idea this particular officer had that the possession of a CWP indicates a dangerous person is the insulting slur from anti-gun people that we should fight.
 
Cant listen at work but...

I had an interesting encounter once in my life. I don't have a CCW but I am working on getting one soon. I do however carry in the door of my truck a fixed blade KABAR knife. I had made an illegal lane change in Lafayette, Indiana (home of Purdue university) so the cops up there are already suspicious. A police officer then pulls me over, and I could not figure out for the life of me what I had done.:D Well one of his first questions was, "Do you have any weapons in the vehicle?" Being the not so bright person I am (not meaning to fib here gentlemen) I said no, forgetting the knife in my door. I had just purchased that knife, so I still had the box in the backseat of my truck. On his way back to the car he scanned the back of my truck with his flashlight, and found the KABAR box in my backseat. He immediatly asks me if I have the knife in the car. I about crapped my pants, and I told him yes I did. Well he asked to have it and I told him where it was, so he took it. He came back and asked me to step out of the vehicle, and I am about to cry:eek:, (not to toot my own horn but I am a law abiding citizen) but he was actually very understanding and just wrote me a warning. We parted friends and I learned a valuable lesson that day. Be honest with the officer, because his life is on the line everyday. When I get home I will listen to the video and comment on it, but when asked if I have a weapon I disclose every pocket knife, filet knife and obviously any firearms.

My two cents.
 
I haven't been stopped since possessing a CCP Permit, but should I get stopped by police, I will hand him my CCP Permit card along with my license, as well as make him aware of the gun and where it is currently in the car/on me.

Law or not, I don't wanna get shot for something stupid like simply not telling someone you have a gun with you.
 
Well, here, they don't care. They assume you're a law-abiding citizen, that if you're carrying it's for all lawful purposes, and you aren't going to shoot them!

Wierd concept, huh?
 
I would never volunteer to a police officer that I have a gun during a routine traffic stop. As a permit holder, I am not required by law to do so in my state or in the neighboring state where I also have a permit.

Why??

I have seen first hand how well most police officers can handle their firearms.
I would fear for my life if I handed by loaded CCW to a police officer who is A. not real proficient with his/ her sidearm.
B. Not at all familiar with mine.
 
Master, I wouldn't give them my gun...I would give them my PERMIT CARD to make them aware I have a gun. I wouldn't want them to handle my firearm either...but most cops I know understand how to properly handle a firearm and safely at the least. Always exceptions to the rule, but generally.
 
the driver was looking for a fight, he acted very immaturely.

would it have been so bad if just said "ok" and let it go?
 
he was advising the citizen
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Yeah, he was advising the citizen that the mere possession of a license to carry (not a gun) combined with exiting the car was a pretext for the officer illegally shooting the citizen.
 
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