USS Cole
- Thread starter Ray VonAsch
- Start date
Fellas,
Offhand, I'd gently point out that not knowing about retaliation does not
mean retaliation did not occur. Perhaps the following thoughts will somewhat
ease your frustration.
Failures of organizations such as the CIA are ballyhooed (with *varying* levels of accuracy) far and wide. Their successes, by their very nature, usually remain unheralded.
In at least one time period (1961-1964), retribution was even conducted by
private citizens without the knowledge of *ANY* “friendly” government
agency. Though people died on both sides of the effort, “the enemy” suffered
the greatest loss of life, all of the crippling injuries, and all of the significant
morale problems. It was decades later that clarifying data was revealed by
the “enemy” nation to the “friendly” nation.
Covert operations quite frequently are *never* revealed or otherwise
discovered. In a surprisingly high percentage of properly run operations, the
operatives themselves do not even have a hint as to who employed them.
Do not underestimate either your enemy or your friends. Professionals
usually restrict knowledge of sensitive operations to a seleced few tight-lipped colleagues. Sometimes, decades later, some level of truth may become known - and even then, only to those with a “need to know”.
------
Still (having said all this) like you, I surely hope the responsible parties catch
it in the shorts for this....
[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited October 12, 2000).]
Offhand, I'd gently point out that not knowing about retaliation does not
mean retaliation did not occur. Perhaps the following thoughts will somewhat
ease your frustration.
Failures of organizations such as the CIA are ballyhooed (with *varying* levels of accuracy) far and wide. Their successes, by their very nature, usually remain unheralded.
In at least one time period (1961-1964), retribution was even conducted by
private citizens without the knowledge of *ANY* “friendly” government
agency. Though people died on both sides of the effort, “the enemy” suffered
the greatest loss of life, all of the crippling injuries, and all of the significant
morale problems. It was decades later that clarifying data was revealed by
the “enemy” nation to the “friendly” nation.
Covert operations quite frequently are *never* revealed or otherwise
discovered. In a surprisingly high percentage of properly run operations, the
operatives themselves do not even have a hint as to who employed them.
Do not underestimate either your enemy or your friends. Professionals
usually restrict knowledge of sensitive operations to a seleced few tight-lipped colleagues. Sometimes, decades later, some level of truth may become known - and even then, only to those with a “need to know”.
------
Still (having said all this) like you, I surely hope the responsible parties catch
it in the shorts for this....
[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited October 12, 2000).]
MrBigglesworth
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Yemeni President Ali Abdullah Saleh offered his condolences to Clinton and the ``friendly American people'' but said he believed the blast was not caused by a deliberate act.[/quote]
Oh so sorry Mr President. This was an accident. We accidentally loaded it down with explosives and accidentally detonated the boat too close to your ship.
Sorry bout that.
What business does any explosive have on a mooring ship eh? I smell rats!
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Try to take away my gun...and you will see my 2nd Amendment Right in ACTION!!! -Me
The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crime. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." Thomas Jefferson
Oh so sorry Mr President. This was an accident. We accidentally loaded it down with explosives and accidentally detonated the boat too close to your ship.
Sorry bout that.
What business does any explosive have on a mooring ship eh? I smell rats!
------------------
Try to take away my gun...and you will see my 2nd Amendment Right in ACTION!!! -Me
The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crime. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." Thomas Jefferson
Dennis said, "Do not underestimate either our enemy or your friends. Professionals usually restrict knowledge of sensitive operations to a seleced few tight-lipped colleagues."
"Tight-lipped" is right. I know someone who was in the military. As his life experiences were very very different from mine, I'd ask lots of questions, 'cause I'm interested in everything. The most interesting thing he ever said was the small pause before he'd answer a question directly relating to work. But get him talking about his cats, and he's one chatty fellow. I deduced that the pause was to allow him time to think about what was classified info and what was not, as I have no clearance.
The problem with the irate posters on this thread is that we've lost the trust that our government will eventually see that justice is done. One day long ago we would have trusted them for this, but no longer. Sad.
--Denise
Train your country's future leaders: homeschool your children.
"Tight-lipped" is right. I know someone who was in the military. As his life experiences were very very different from mine, I'd ask lots of questions, 'cause I'm interested in everything. The most interesting thing he ever said was the small pause before he'd answer a question directly relating to work. But get him talking about his cats, and he's one chatty fellow. I deduced that the pause was to allow him time to think about what was classified info and what was not, as I have no clearance.
The problem with the irate posters on this thread is that we've lost the trust that our government will eventually see that justice is done. One day long ago we would have trusted them for this, but no longer. Sad.
--Denise
Train your country's future leaders: homeschool your children.
Oh yeah, now the US is REALLY gonna be on their side. Smart move Arabs.
I think they lack an appreciation for how much better Jews treat them than Arabs would. If the Palestinians were in Iraq, Sadam would just gas them and be done with it.
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The Alcove
I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist
The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
Compromising the right position only makes you more wrong.
I think they lack an appreciation for how much better Jews treat them than Arabs would. If the Palestinians were in Iraq, Sadam would just gas them and be done with it.
------------------
The Alcove
I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist
The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
Compromising the right position only makes you more wrong.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ironbarr:
Is THIS the "October Surprise"??????????
[/quote]
I doubt it. One thing I've seen of the present adminstration is a total belief in the gullibility of the American public. If the media and the administration want attention focused "there" something a whole lot worse is happening somewhere else.
Is THIS the "October Surprise"??????????
[/quote]
I doubt it. One thing I've seen of the present adminstration is a total belief in the gullibility of the American public. If the media and the administration want attention focused "there" something a whole lot worse is happening somewhere else.
dennie suman
New member
What a disaster!! Not just the loss of American life, again, but the fact that we trust our known enemys so much.
We have such a knack for sticking our nose in everyone elses business, and wondering why people dislike us.
Why were we refueling in this port anyway?
Dennis,
I am sure some of what you say is true about covert operations. I am sure things go on that we do not, and should not, know about.
However, when I see people like, Hussein, Amin, Khadafi, Castro, bin Laden, and others, still walking around breathing "our" air, waiting to die of old age, it sure makes me question the ability and the "balls" of the people we have in charge.
It makes me digusted that we cowtow to the U.N.,sending our troops to do their dirty work, while at the same time letting the U.N. try to destroy everything that once made this a great country.
Am I a minority of one when I see these people constantly spit in our face and laugh, because they know that no real harm will come to them?
Seems like every few years I am watching the same movie, only different leading roles.
When is "enough", enough?
Dennie NRA Life Member, GOA
We have such a knack for sticking our nose in everyone elses business, and wondering why people dislike us.
Why were we refueling in this port anyway?
Dennis,
I am sure some of what you say is true about covert operations. I am sure things go on that we do not, and should not, know about.
However, when I see people like, Hussein, Amin, Khadafi, Castro, bin Laden, and others, still walking around breathing "our" air, waiting to die of old age, it sure makes me question the ability and the "balls" of the people we have in charge.
It makes me digusted that we cowtow to the U.N.,sending our troops to do their dirty work, while at the same time letting the U.N. try to destroy everything that once made this a great country.
Am I a minority of one when I see these people constantly spit in our face and laugh, because they know that no real harm will come to them?
Seems like every few years I am watching the same movie, only different leading roles.
When is "enough", enough?
Dennie NRA Life Member, GOA
Don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but is there a
possibility that maybe the Mossad sponsored the attack to have the US
join ranks with Israel to eradicate the Palestinians?
It wouln't be quite surprising - bomb a third party, say your enemy
did it and in the end, you paid a few guys with plastic keys that
would allow them to enter paradise.
possibility that maybe the Mossad sponsored the attack to have the US
join ranks with Israel to eradicate the Palestinians?
It wouln't be quite surprising - bomb a third party, say your enemy
did it and in the end, you paid a few guys with plastic keys that
would allow them to enter paradise.
And a proverb, I think, from the Middle East, "The Enemy of my Enemy, is my Friend".
So, who's our friend? Or in other words, who'
s our enemies?
With the State Dept, and the Kingdom of Washington DC giving money away for decades to gain strategic and economic standings in areas of the world, what does one expect.
We, as the ordinary citizens, aren't involved in the power plays, and political chicanery of our government. We don't know the full program, if you will.
Many concessions are made on the international level, only to be found out decades later, if at all, by the American people.
Convenient that it has occured right before the elections, no? Wag the dog again? Likely.
So, who's our friend? Or in other words, who'
s our enemies?
With the State Dept, and the Kingdom of Washington DC giving money away for decades to gain strategic and economic standings in areas of the world, what does one expect.
We, as the ordinary citizens, aren't involved in the power plays, and political chicanery of our government. We don't know the full program, if you will.
Many concessions are made on the international level, only to be found out decades later, if at all, by the American people.
Convenient that it has occured right before the elections, no? Wag the dog again? Likely.
Gunslinger
Moderator
The problem with the irate posters on this thread is that we've lost the trust that our government will eventually see that justice is done. One day long ago we would have trusted them for this, but no longer. Sad.
Well said Denise. I think you hit the nail on the head and it is sad.
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Gunslinger
I was promised a Shortycicle and I want a Shortycicle!
Well said Denise. I think you hit the nail on the head and it is sad.
------------------
Gunslinger
I was promised a Shortycicle and I want a Shortycicle!
While there is a possibility our government participated in "need to know" wetwork reprisals against terrorist aggressors, I kind of doubt Uncle Sugar had the guts for such intimate action.
I suspect Clinton and the next president will pursue justice as diligently as the Republicans did when a Marine bunker was blowed up in Beruit and an airliner was trashed around Lockerbe, Scotland. Which was very feeble pursuit, to be sure. Those Marines weren't even supposed to have live ammo in their weapons, for all the good it would have done them.
Jeff
I suspect Clinton and the next president will pursue justice as diligently as the Republicans did when a Marine bunker was blowed up in Beruit and an airliner was trashed around Lockerbe, Scotland. Which was very feeble pursuit, to be sure. Those Marines weren't even supposed to have live ammo in their weapons, for all the good it would have done them.
Jeff
As some of you may remember, I am a retired Naval officer and continue a close affiliation due to my work as a defense executive.
Words cannot express how sick-at-heart I am, nor how deeply I want to see reciprocity:
For my shipmates -- past and present, especially the crew of the USS Cole
For the honor and long-term safety of all our military forces
For the self-respect of the United States
For those who wish to make war on the United States -- at senior service school I was taught that terrorism is, in fact, low-intensity warfare -- I recommend prudent consideration of our nation's demonstrated record in overwhelmingly winning military conflicts when unified and aroused.
Words cannot express how sick-at-heart I am, nor how deeply I want to see reciprocity:
For my shipmates -- past and present, especially the crew of the USS Cole
For the honor and long-term safety of all our military forces
For the self-respect of the United States
For those who wish to make war on the United States -- at senior service school I was taught that terrorism is, in fact, low-intensity warfare -- I recommend prudent consideration of our nation's demonstrated record in overwhelmingly winning military conflicts when unified and aroused.
Once upon a time... April 1986...
I took great delight in sneaking into our pinko "Contemporary Affairs" teacher's classroom, and writing on the blackboard:
"Good morning Qaddafi!
Care to make any threats?
Go right ahead,
We have plenty more jets.
We hope you learned your lesson,
Only time will tell.
But do keep in mind;
Payback is Hell!"
For a brief and happy period, the score was obvious; bomb us and get an airstrike back all the way at the top of the ladder... No dicking around with little middlemen or aspirin factories...
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"..but never ever Fear. Fear is for the enemy. Fear and Bullets."
10mm: It's not the size of the Dawg in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!
I took great delight in sneaking into our pinko "Contemporary Affairs" teacher's classroom, and writing on the blackboard:
"Good morning Qaddafi!
Care to make any threats?
Go right ahead,
We have plenty more jets.
We hope you learned your lesson,
Only time will tell.
But do keep in mind;
Payback is Hell!"
For a brief and happy period, the score was obvious; bomb us and get an airstrike back all the way at the top of the ladder... No dicking around with little middlemen or aspirin factories...
------------------
"..but never ever Fear. Fear is for the enemy. Fear and Bullets."
10mm: It's not the size of the Dawg in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!
We now know the USS Cole was in port to refuel. US ships have been refueling at that port for something like 18 months. The reason the Cole and other ships refueled at that port is because in the drawdown of he Navy, the US no longer has sufficient oilers to refuel at sea (where this kind of terrorist attack could not have taken place).
A series of questions just leap to mind:
1) Why are we short of oilers?
2) If we had to refuel in a hostile port, why were there no security precautions taken?
3) Did Herr Klinton deliberately put these ships in harm's way to provoke some response out of the terrorists?
I think this is more like Somalia and the lack of armor for the shooters than the USS Liberty. Military decisions were made by people singularily unqualified to make those decisions and someone got hurt.
------------------
Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.
Barry Goldwater--1964
A series of questions just leap to mind:
1) Why are we short of oilers?
2) If we had to refuel in a hostile port, why were there no security precautions taken?
3) Did Herr Klinton deliberately put these ships in harm's way to provoke some response out of the terrorists?
I think this is more like Somalia and the lack of armor for the shooters than the USS Liberty. Military decisions were made by people singularily unqualified to make those decisions and someone got hurt.
------------------
Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.
Barry Goldwater--1964