USMC Tng. and Police Academy Tng.

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Spade Cooley

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I went through a police academy where there was stress but the stress was directed with a purpose in mind. Years later I visited the same police academy and noticed a lot of changes. It was more like a Marine Corps. Boot Camp, Recruits were knocking on the door and the D I within was saying, "I can't hear you." There was a lot of yelling and screaming around the academy without much thought to directed stress or training the men to think on their feet.

The other day I saw films on Marine Corp. Boot Camp. There were DIs running around screaming constantly looking like a bunch of idiots. You could not even tell what the were yelling. in my opinion this type of supervision accomplishes nothing. You want leadership, obediace to orders, and a foot soldier who can think on his feet, not some scarred rabbit. I was in the Army and don't remember anything comming close to the scream fest I heard in the USMC. These guys didn't learn a thing from what I saw. I guess they were trying to turn them into warriors or killers but I couldn't tell it .

Now they are in Iraq trying to police the streets like a municapal police Dept. This in not the nature of a soldier and they are not trained for it. We could do a lot better in trainning both groups.
 
Do not even think about knocking the way we Marines are trained. I went through it and am glad i did. when there is a tough job to do they send in the Marines. The other branches are good as well but when it came to clean out Falluja they sent the Marines and i could go on and on. to you it does not make sense but at the end of boot the when you get your Eagle Globe and Anchor you suddenly notice you have tears in your eyes and you cant look at your DI. when you finaly do you see he has a tear as well. You are now part of something that stays with you for life.
 
They're focusing on training them to be leaders, and as leaders, you have to take a lot of information, make sense of it, and react. That's probably why there's so much screaming, according to you.
 
Unless you've been through Marine Corps boot camp (and I have), you wouldn't understand the concept or idea behind it. Marine Corps training specifically trains you to think on your feet.

In fact, there was an article not to long ago commenting on how the army wants to be more like the Marine Corps in its training.

I guess all that soft army training doesn't work. Just because you couldn't tell what the DI's were yelling, doesn't mean the recruits couldn't tell.

One thing about Marine Corps boot camp.......if you make it through that, you can make it through anything.
 
Isn't going to like WestPoint military academy a step up from boot camp, since they're supposed to put you through Basic+?
 
If that film you mentioned was 'The DI' with Jack Webb as the DI, what you saw wasn't all Hollywood.

That film was made with the support of the USMC and, in fact, most of the enlisted 'actors' were active duty US Marines.

On of my sons is an Army MP. There are, acccording to him, lots of similarities with Military and civilian police work.

Since Drug mfgr can led to consfication of property, real and personal, coke cookers who don't want the family farm siezed, often cook/grow their property on Federal land. Be it a National Forest, BLM land or on Military Reservations. Drug production around Federal Land is kinda high.

There are major differencies also. An MP Company is very heavily armed and many corfrontations aren't between 'Police and Suspect', but rather between 'Soldier and Enemy'. There is a different mind-set. In Bosnia, Croatia and, I think, Sarajevo, he made patrols in an APC with the MG in a ring mount cleared and manned.

Keeping the peace in a Military context I suspect is a tad different that in a civilian community.

It isn't that cut and dried, but maybe you get the idea.

I have never been a Police Officer, city, state, or federal. .

salty.
 
The film I saw was a recent documentary of USMC Boot camp. It was one hour of solid screaming by D IS, usually two at a time. I didn't see one thing taught the entire hour. I was wondering what the purpose of it was. If you saw this one, you would remember it.

I didn't see anything in Jack Webb's film that was anything close. His movie flattered the Corps. I can understand some built in stress and yelling, but this was way over the top. They screamed at the Boots even when they did it right. They looked more like idiots rather than leaders or instructors.
 
On the surface it may look like alot of screaming and yelling and possibly the Police academy is trying to imitate some form of USMC boot camp but I can tell you from personal experiance that every single aspect of Marine Corps basic training is strictly controlled and choreographed to get specific responses and development. The police force may think they are copying drill instructors but chances are they are copying the hollywood version.

The film I saw was a recent documentary of USMC Boot camp. It was one hour of solid screaming by D IS, usually two at a time. I didn't see one thing taught the entire hour. I was wondering what the purpose of it was. If you saw this one, you would remember it.
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I am guessing that the editors had something to do with that. Also you are comparing a program to train civil employees to the training regime to mold teenagers fresh from high school into a cohesive fighting unit. That can only be done by strict discipline. I went thru boot camp and although we got screamed at alot there was alot of knowledge passed and I doubt that any other system could teach a person so many different things about so many different subjects. You can think what you want but if you experianced it first hand you would see it is a whole lot more then yelling. I am sorry you are so misinformed
 
When I went through Basic back in 1986 the Drill Sgt's screamed and yelled at us just like the Marine DI's do.
In fact, IIRC, in the 80's the U.S. Army sent Drill Sgt's to the USMC to study and learn from them, and then practice that method in the Army.

BUT, it was not just about yelling and screaming in an uncontrolled and pointless manner.
The yelling and screaming was basically for shock value and to quickly establish command and control.

It also only lasted a few days.
After a few days the Drill Sgt's no longer yelled and screamed.
They were more like father figures.
The yelling and screaming and "in you face" stuff is really just a peformance for the first day or so for the newbies.
 
The other day I saw films on Marine Corp. Boot Camp. There were DIs running around screaming constantly looking like a bunch of idiots. You could not even tell what the were yelling. in my opinion this type of supervision accomplishes nothing.
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Okay.........
How about "Scoreboard", just 'recent' history. Let's see.....
Guadalcanal?
Tarawa?
Iwo Jima?
Chosin Reservoir?
Khe Sahn?
Hue City?
"...accomplishes nothing."
Hmmm......

Semper Fi,
Walter
 
Hey Spaade, still wanting to know what state? Sounds like an instructor I know, up in NE Alabama, perhaps?
 
Spade Cooley said:
The other day I saw films on Marine Corp. Boot Camp. There were DIs running around screaming constantly looking like a bunch of idiots. You could not even tell what the were yelling. in my opinion this type of supervision accomplishes nothing.
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Imagine, if you will, you are in a firefight. The noise is horrendous. People are shooting at you and hopefully, you are shooting back. Possibly explosives are going off around you and around the enemy. Lots of stress!

An officer is yelling commands. Several Sergeants are yelling commands. Even more corporals are yelling commands. Who do you obey?

The time to learn this, is not when you are under fire. You learned this basic stuff in boot camp. From 1, 2 or 3 DI's running around shouting and screaming seemingly conflicting orders. I can guarantee that you will understand what each is saying. Perhaps not at first, but you will learn, and in short order! You will learn to think on your feet. You will learn to instantly obey a given set of orders from a given authority. You will learn to do this under great stress... All before you ever fire a weapon in armed conflict.

But you never went through Boot training in my Corps. To you it looks pointless. Silly. Idiotic even. But I guaran-damn-tee you, there is a distinct purpose for this: To accomplish the mission and your own personal survival.

This depends upon you learning what is being taught, in boot.

Es Sprit de Corps and Semper Fidelis are much more than simple slogans. :cool:
 
This thread is stupid.

Does someone think the Marines aren't trained well enough?!?!?!

"OMG those guys were yelling at the recruits. That isn't nice and that isn't how to teach people" - Are you friggin kidding me?!?!

Idiots.
 
Al hit it on the head with this:

To you it looks pointless. Silly. Idiotic even. But I guaran-damn-tee you, there is a distinct purpose for this: To accomplish the mission and your own personal survival.
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That also applies, to a lesser degree, to law enforcement. But there are other purposes as well. When you graduate from boot, or from a police academy, you experience an unparalleled sense of accomplishment and pride in both yourself and in your branch or department. It can't really be described; it has to be experienced.

There's one other purpose for law enforcement: We don't want people who are only half-hearted about this career. We want sincere people who really want it. Those with a ho-hum attitude need to be weeded out, and a boot camp style academy definitely does that ;).
 
Okay.........
How about "Scoreboard", just 'recent' history. Let's see.....
Guadalcanal?
Tarawa?
Iwo Jima?
Chosin Reservoir?
Khe Sahn?
Hue City?
"...accomplishes nothing."
Hmmm......

Semper Fi,
Walter
Click to expand...

+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
 
Just a quick comment on USMC boot camp-
In boot camp, recruits are taught to tolerate stress of overwhelming confusion and to act as directed, not to think. This is EXTREMELY valuable in a combat or other high-stress situation. Do as you are told by your superiors, not the natural self-preservation voice in your head. Act, don't react. Obey, don't think and reason. You will have to trust me on this one, it is absolutely essential in combat. When rounds start flying and you need to be somewhere else, how else do you get your men out of a safe hole and take the enemy positions?

As far as your conclusion that they are misassigned when sent to police the streets of Baghdad or other cities, the results are directly related to the type of training they received. In a typical law enforcement situation, officers observe and intervene if laws are broken. Since there is no "law of the land" in Iraq currently, the military will observe up to a point, then act in the way they were trained to act. They are trained to kill, not trained to defuse civil disagreements and enforce minor regulations. Their training tells them that when confronted with a threat, kill the threat. Not appropriate in a police situation.

Summarizing your statements, the forces we have policing the streets in Iraq are not trained to do so. They are trained to fight. We could have done a better job in the takeover of the country. We didn't because the military is trained to accomplish a mission, and police are trained to accomplish another, and the two camps never talked to one another.

In general, I will agree with most of the other posters here: if you made it through USMC boot camp, you are proud and you are tough. That training will serve you throughout your life.
 
went through a police academy where there was stress but the stress was directed with a purpose in mind. Years later I visited the same police academy and noticed a lot of changes. It was more like a Marine Corps. Boot Camp, Recruits were knocking on the door and the D I within was saying, "I can't hear you." There was a lot of yelling and screaming around the academy without much thought to directed stress or training the men to think on their feet.
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My first post to this thread was just a response to the criticism of Marine
Corps training. But after re-reading the entire thread, I'd like to add this.

Marine Corps recruits are being trained to eventually confront an enemy
and shoot him dead, face to face. That may be cold, but that is the
mission of a grunt Marine, and ALL Marines are "grunts" first, and anything
else, later. Even Marine pilots go through infantry training.

That said, I agree with you, Spade, that training police the way Marines
are trained is not my idea of correct. I have always been lead to believe
that the mission of the Police is "to protect and serve". If that is true,
they don't need to be trained like Marines, whose general mission is
usually to "break things and kill people".

"SWAT" teams are a perfect example of Police training gone wrong.:mad:

Walter

Semper Fi
 
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