Using the Same Bullet to Load and Unload your CCW

[marine6680]

I haven't had any issue with setback when using quality defensive ammo from respected brands.

Just knowing that it is possible, and crap happens... I give a quick look at the round before loading it again. It's not a major concern though.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

You shouldn't rotate your magazines- it does nothing for them.

You also shouldn't unload/reload your gun every day. Leave it loaded.

Bullets can set back and at times they do set back. This can increase pressures dramatically. Constant rechambering of ammunition can also cause wear and distortion of the case rim.

 

[1969Colt1911]

I don't carry, but I load and unload for practice, home defense. But if the bullet is dinged or noticeably shortened, no go. Put in the bag and put fresh ammo for your purpose. Light dings no problem but if it don't look right to your eye the gun won't like it I say.

 

[Mike_Fontenot]

I always chamber the first round (in my 10mm Kimber Eclipse) using a very slow movement of the slide, and with a particular type of mag that has an undimpled follower and weak mag spring. When I do that (with a never-before-chambered cartridge), that first round slides into the chamber like melted butter. But I've noticed that, when I eject that round (in order to dry-fire the gun, or work on it), and then re-chamber that round after I'm done, that after several iterations of that, the chambering isn't as smooth, and the reason is that the extractor roughs up the groove in the rear of the case. As soon as I detect that hesitant chambering, I use a fresh cartridge.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

You shouldn't rotate your magazines- it does nothing for them.

You also shouldn't unload/reload your gun every day. Leave it loaded.

Bullets can set back and at times they do set back. This can increase pressures dramatically. Constant rechambering of ammunition can also cause wear and distortion of the case rim.

I agree with Bill. Not all factory ammo is loaded using the same levels of quality control. Some cheap stuff can sneak up on you -- and you'll find setback pretty quickly. (It has more to do with the ammo QC than the gun, and how well the gun functions.) If you reload the same round time and again, you may not have a problem, but you COULD.

Some years back there was a brand called AAA and about half of the ammo in a given box would setback when chambered, and some of it would be overlong when examined before loading. That too-long stuff might not always chamber or feeding properly in some guns. It didn't take long to figure out there was better stuff for you money...

 

[Stargater53]

You're not going to increase the life of your magazine by loading and unloading it frequently. Quite the opposite, in fact. The wear comes from compressing and decompressing the spring. Leaving it in either state for prolonged periods produces very little wear.

People have left their pistols loaded for years without affecting their reliability, providing their springs were good springs to begin with.

I've heard some complaints of Beretta 92 springs from service personnel, so I use Mag-Gar mags.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

You're not going to increase the life of your magazine by loading and unloading it frequently. Quite the opposite, in fact. The wear comes from compressing and decompressing the spring. Leaving it in either state for prolonged periods produces very little wear.

It totally depends on the spring and the design of the magazine.

If the springs aren't compressed to their design limits, compressing them doesn't have much effect on spring life. If they're compressed to their design limits and left there, that can be worse on the springs than working them.

It's only when they're compressed, near or beyond their design limits, that the metal begins to degrade. When under stress, the metal begins to break, with many small microfractures in the material; that degradation continues if the pressure on the compressed spring is not reduced. (Think about tappet spring in older engines: they may cycle many millions of time over the life of the engine, but seldom fail -- because they are designed to work ONLY within their design envelope. Cycling doesn't hurt them.)

Mags that are worked (flexed) regularly, but are designed with springs that have plenty of reserve power, there's relatively little wear. Hi-Cap mags that are downloaded a round or two can work for years without problems. Hi-Cap mags that are not downloaded, which are -- when fully loaded near their design limits -- can degrade more quickly. (Not all are near their design limits when fully loaded, but many are.)

Wolff Springs warns about this in the Wolff FAQ area.

A 1911 7-round mag may long outlive the gun or the gun owner, if worked a lot , or if left loaded -- because JMB build in a lot of reserve in his original design. A 19-round 9mm mag might not last nearly as long, if left fully loaded. Downloaded a round or two, it might have a long life.

 

[chemcal]

So today when I loaded a round of critical defense into my p99, I released the slide and it only partially chambered. I pushed the slide forward. What would this be due to?

 

[Rinspeed]

You shouldn't rotate your magazines- it does nothing for them

I know that has been a opinion by many for a long time but there are a lot of professionals, that go in harms way, that totally disagree with it. Just off the top of my head Larry Vickers is one of them. Not sure who is to believe myself.


As far as bullet set back I was always concerned most about the .40 S&W pistols I carried. If I remember right it only takes a tenth of an inch of set back for the pressure to double.

 

[Moonglum]

Am I the only one that's thinking " If you just leave your carry gun loaded this whole discussion becomes moot?"

 

[Walt Sherrill]

... Just off the top of my head Larry Vickers is one of them. Not sure who is to believe myself.

If Mr. Vickers or someone can give us a REASON to rotate mags, then we'll have a basis to make a judgment. I do know, however, that springs don't heal with periods of rest. Rotating mags simply spreads the work being done by the mag springs over a larger number of mags -- and over the long run, the result is the same. It takes longer to wear them all out, but if rotated evenly, you gain nothing. (In fact, given inflation, you'd probably spend less by buying a new spring now and then, rather than a bunch of them farther down the road.)

I suspect that Mr. Vickers upgrades his guns BEFORE the mags wear out -- so rotating mags works for him -- unless he keeps his mags and sells only the guns.

A fully loaded mag does not mean that the mag's spring is fully compressed. It's more likely to be a problem with some sub-compact mags and hi-cap mags. Seven-round 1911 mags may outlive several owners -- lot of reserve built into that spring application.

Unless working springs are fully compressed (near their elastic/design limit, while stored, carried or while being worked, it doesn't make that much of a difference. A working spring that isn't pushed to it's limits can have a very long life; one that is pushed to it's design limit, less so. That's why Wolff Springs recommends downloading loaded hi-cap mags a round or two for long-term storage.

 

[seeker_two]

If I have to clear my pistol and then reload it, I set the previously chambered round aside. Then, I remove four rounds from the magazine, put the previously chambered round in the mag, and then shuffle the four rounds before putting them back in the mag. I load and chamber and go about my business. As infrequently as I clear my pistol outside of range time, this procedure tends to minimize setback concerns.

 

[springer99]

Rotating ammo in magazines and/or chambers isn't something that I've ever worried about. I don't remember anytime that I've experienced any measureable "set-back" in any of my pistols. I seldom fire factory ammo; just my reloads. If there are examples of actual setback, maybe they're related to certain mfg. and/or certain loads.??

Changing magazine springs?? I've only had to do that once and that was on some SIG P6 surplus magazines I had fromm the '70's. I've kept my 1911, SIG938 and M9 magazines loaded for years and they show no signs of stress. I think cycling of the springs does more to degrade them than just keeping them under stress.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I think cycling of the springs does more to degrade them than just keeping them under stress.

According to the experts, which has included a number of engineers participating here who are familiar with the subject (one of them a metallurgist), most springs -- while they will degrade with use -- won't degrade enough, if properly designed, to matter. They'll typically outlive the gun or the shooter.

When recoil or mag springs do degrade, due to cycling, it's because they are compressed to or near the point of maximum compression. If the spring doesn't compress to that point (called its elastic limit), the spring (even if the mag is fully loaded, or the slide is locked back) won't degrade much with use.

A lot of springs, when cycled, NEVER get close to the spring's elastic limits. Tappet springs in a car engine are an example: they may cycle many millions of times without failures over an engine's life... They're designed with excess power, and unlike guns, they're not asked to do more work in less space, with less material.

In earlier discussions here and on The High Road, it was noted that the small recoil spring for the Rohrbaugh R9 -- probably the smallest 9mm semi-auto -- should be replaced every 250 or sound rounds. That gun fires the same round as guns that have recoil springs that last thousands of rounds!

What's the difference? That small spring is apparently pushed to it's elastic limits with each shot -- and that spring just can't last as long as other less stressed springs. Most spring applications do stress springs that much.

The point of maximum compression is when spring wear takes place. If the spring is kept loaded, and the spring is near it's design limits at that point -- and, arguably, most mag springs are not be near that limi when fully loaded -- then the spring will degrade a bit more quickly than if the mag is downloaded for cycling or storage. For most full-size, non-hi-cap mags, it's not likely to be a problem. For some hi-cap guns, or for some sub-compacts, it can be an issue.