using scope as observation tool hunting

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Inexcusable, irresponsible gun handling. One of the definitive signs of the slob hunter.
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Absolutely!

If a "hunter" can afford a scoped firearm, the hunter can afford a binocular that will enable the hunter to distinguish between a human and a target animal of any species. It may be inconvenient or uncomfortable to bring a binocular on a hunt, but no more so than large heavy boots, multiple layers of clothing, a small day-pack with food, water, etc.
 
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Well, I assume most of you responding have never hunted on horse back in the mountains.

Bino's are a must, but... it is very common to use one's scope to quickly glass a high basin for critters when hunting elk, mule deer and bears. There is absolutely nothing dangerous about the practice... in certain situations.

Should a hunter rely on his rifle scope when hunting wooded whitetail farm land? Probably not, you don't know who is behind the next tree.

Can you glass a herd of Pronghorn on the Red desert of Wyoming with your scope? Sure, completely safe and having the rifle up is an added advantage if you need that split second shot before the herd hits 60mph.

Worry about other hunters in this situation? Any hunters for miles around are going to be more than evident, with their blaze orange and vehicles!

So the answer is - It depends on the situation, where you are hunting and what game you are after.

Please consider these facts before blanketing all who "scope" with their scopes as unsafe and un-ethical!
 
When I used to hunt I had no choice but to use binoculars, as I preferred peep sights on my hunting guns.

The only exception to that was a 4 power scope I had on my .22 for squirrel hunting. Even then I used binoculars for the field of view.
 
Worry about other hunters in this situation? Any hunters for miles around are going to be more than evident, with their blaze orange and vehicles!
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Wyoredman,

Your assumption on my part is most correct. I have never been hunting on horseback in the mountains and you may be correct in your assessment but what about non-hunters (hikers, campers or maybe people living up in the mountains) that may not be wearing hunter orange? Maybe I'm missing something but sweeping a mountain ridge or getting a better view of movement with a scoped rifle on a mountain ridge would seem to me to be no different then doing it anywhere else. :confused:
 
Yep, been hunting on horseback. Nope, don't scan with my rifle. Gonna shoot from the horse? Most of 'em don't like it. Consider it from the other side. There you are, high in the saddle, scanning the next ridge for game. As you swing over to that patch of trees, there hunkered down behind some deadfall is some yahoo scoping you! He's a quarter mile off, but I'll bet you want to spur that pony and get over there to speak to the fellow. Game spotted, and you want to count points, OK. I've even "counted coupe" on game for which I lacked a tag. Just lookin'? No way, no how, never ever.
 
ligonierbill said:
Yep, been hunting on horseback. Nope, don't scan with my rifle. Gonna shoot from the horse? Most of 'em don't like it. Consider it from the other side. There you are, high in the saddle, scanning the next ridge for game. As you swing over to that patch of trees, there hunkered down behind some deadfall is some yahoo scoping you! He's a quarter mile off, but I'll bet you want to spur that pony and get over there to speak to the fellow. Game spotted, and you want to count points, OK. I've even "counted coupe" on game for which I lacked a tag. Just lookin'? No way, no how, never ever.
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That made me laugh! Not at all what I was referring to. But, that is ok. In the high country, it is often that you spot game a long way off, ride to the location, dismount, find a rest and then scan the area with your scope trying to locate the game you saw four canyons over 3 hours ago. If you do locate them, you are ready for a shot. Simple as that. Never say never!

shortwave said:
...but what about non-hunters (hikers, campers or maybe people living up in the mountains) that may not be wearing hunter orange? Maybe I'm missing something but sweeping a mountain ridge or getting a better view of movement with a scoped rifle on a mountain ridge would seem to me to be no different then doing it anywhere else.
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I don't think you quite understand the terrain. Non-hunters and campers most likely (very, very slim chance) are wandering off the established trails of the western mountains during hunting season. And people don't live in these mountains or deserts.
 


Picture by Stan Harter, a friend of mine. Used with permission.

Here is a perfect example of a situation where using your scope to look over the animals is NOT dangerous. This photo was taken last fall, just after hunting season closed.

These situations and this terrain are common. I hope this photo describes it better!

P.S. Those elk are more than a mile away! No one is near them, or between them and the camera, or SCOPE! There are no roads or trails! The snow is knee deep. It just isn't dangerous to use your scope to look these critters over.:)
 
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Never a good idea. Not only are you pointing your rifle at something you don't intend to shoot. A definite rule breaker.
But, a pair of binoculars offers a much better field of view, and it also requires less movement to scan with binocs rather than a scope.

I cringe every time I hear someone suggest that a scope is good for anything besides target acquisition.
 
That elk herd picture reminds me of when I was driving in northwest Colorado about 10 years ago, in late winter. I was on a straight country road, and noticed there was a road kill mule deer about every few hundred yards. I had never seen such a concentration of road kill! Better keep an eye out I thought, especially as it was late in the day just before dusk. Then up ahead I saw a mule deer on the side of the road, ready to cross. I slowed down, and looked behind him to see if there were more, I've had enough near-misses and a few hits just driving in suburban Chicago with deer and know there's usually more than one. Sure enough, there was another behind it. Then another, then another... next thing you know there were many dozen, maybe a hundred, crossing the road in front of me. It was an amazing sight to me, whitetails just don't form herds that big!

Suddenly I could understand all the road kill I saw, at night it would be hard to avoid them when they cross in such numbers.
 
Originally posted byjimbob86:

A good set of binos can help you pick out the flick of an ear or the turn of a head further out than the naked eye can ...... still hunting is a lost art.
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Still hunting is not lost, it's just misunderstood. Last two bucks I shot stillhunting were less than 30 yards away when I pulled the trigger. I assure you jimbob, I did not need to use binos to spot them. Actually, at that distance from a mature buck, the movement made by lowering my gun and raising a pair of binos, then lowering the binos outta the way while raising the gun again, more'n likely would made for a lost opportunity.
 
Thanks for the amazing pic. Wyoredman.

Have seen some fairly large herds of buffalo out West but nothing to compare to that herd of elk. And I also found out in short order that buffalo versus motorcycle is a sure loser for the rider. Buffalo all over the roads. :eek:

Guess old habits would be hard to break though. Just wouldn't feel comfortable scope spotting even in the pic. scenario.
Think I'd still have my bino's in my saddle bag.
 
Shortwave, Having been both a SWAT team member and Police sniper, I have probably had close to 1000 people in my sights over my career. I work in a bit smaller, more laid back town now, but a few years back when I was executing a couple of drug raids each day I went to work, a lot of people got viewed through an aiming device. In building clearing, every thing you see(in one eye anyway) is seen through the aiming device of a sub-gun or M-4. All day, I keep a loaded hand gun pointed at some of the largest arteries and veins in my body. I dont worry about getting shot by my pistol just because its muzzle is pointing at me.
It is not a necessity to idiot proof every aspect of life. There comes a point when you have to trust your training, trust your proficiency and ability, trust your weapons system, and trust your skills in maintaining your weapons system to its proper functioning condition.
Having said that, I have never scoped a person in a hunting situation. A person and a deer move totally different. Pretty easy to tell them apart.
 
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Having been both a SWAT team member and Police sniper, I have probably had close to 1000 people in my sights over my career. I work in a bit smaller, more laid back town now, but a few years back when I was executing a couple of drug raids each day I went to work, a lot of people got viewed through an aiming device.
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Those people were potential targets, not someone wandering through a hunting area.

Are you honestly saying you see no difference between potential targets encountered during a drug raid and a hunter or even a trespasser?
All day, I keep a loaded hand gun pointed at some of the largest arteries and veins in my body. I dont worry about getting shot by my pistol just because its muzzle is pointing at me.
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That gun is holstered (at least it should be) which effectively renders it completely inert and eliminates the potential for human error causing an unintentional discharge.

Are you honestly saying you see no difference between pointing a loaded hunting rifle at someone and having the muzzle of a holstered carry gun pointing at something?
 
Reynolds 357,OK,you feel comfortable viewing ME through an aiming device,and you feel comfortable being in front of your own muzzle.Fine.


How would you feel about looking into the muzzle and objective lense of a stranger?

How do those crosshairs feel when they are on you?
 
What I am doing is responding to a question asked earlier. I can with a very high degree of certainty eliminate beyond any reasonable probability that a target is a human using the naked eye. If the target demonstrates a high probability to disappear quickly, I usually make final identification of it with the scope. I have enough confidence in my ability to identity with the naked eye and with my equipment that I see the risk of harming a trespasser as near impossible. As to whether I want to be looked at in a scope, If I am trespassing, I deserve to be. Making accommodation What people committing crimes want is really the least of my worries.
 
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reynolds357,

First, having had/have relatives and many friends in LE, let me sincerely Thank You for your services and for risking your life daily for your community.

I'm familiar with a lot of the rigorous training Cols., Ohio Swat team goes through and my hats off to them. I assume your training is similar.

With respect, there's a big difference in the quality and quantity of training you've had compared to the training the average Joe in the field has had. Plus, when you had every one of those people in your sights, you were doing your job in which other lives were at stake. Big difference then a person going out for an afternoon of hunting. It would not matter to me if it was Carlos Hathcock II spotting me through a scope while we were out hunting, it would upset me. For the simple reason, I don't want any guns pointed towards me and there's just no rational reason for it.

If I am trespassing, I deserve to be. Making accommodation What people committing crimes want is really the least of my worries.
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reynolds357,

Are you saying that in your LE precinct it is legal to draw down on someone trespassing ?
 
Shortwave, I agree with you. Having said that, I have killed a couple of nice bucks crossing shooting alleys that would have never been killed had I gone to Binos first. With the naked eye, I knew its brown, it walks like an animal, its not hanging around and its at almost 500 yards. My point is that I am definitely willing to go to scope in that situation because no human is supposed to be there. I am 99.999 percent confident that the target is a creature with fur. I dont have a bunch of time to make a shot. I am confident in the mechanical mechanism of the rifle. I do not see it as irresponsible to multiply a .001 percent question of identity by a 1 in 6 billion chance of mechanical failure.
 
Shortwave, it would depend on the circumstances of the trespassing as to whether or not it would be legal to draw down on the person. If i were trespassing, I would view it as my own fault if the land owner drew down on me.
 
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