Using my handgun to get to my rifle

No, the North Hollywood shootout shows what happens when folks wear the wrong body armor in a gun battle at non-typical urban defense distances. There are numerous instances of people with pistols defeating people with rifles. With that said and relative to the OP, pistols can be quite effective when the shooters are at ranges where they can hit what they need to hit, such as 15 yards and not the long distances of the North Hollywood incident.
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The long distances of the North Hollywood shootout were a direct result of the presence of rifles by th BG's. The officers' pistols were not vey effective because the shots were long due to the presence f rifles, and the perps had armor.

Had the perps been armed with pistols, the ranges would have been much shorter, which would have enabled the officers to use their duty weapon effectively.

In short, had the officers had rifles from the get-go the fight would have ended much faster. Thats what happens when you bring pistols to a rifle fight!

Yes, people with pistols have defeated those wielding rifles. If the range is very short and the target is soft, then a pistol can be used effectively, although a rifle is almost always more effective.

This is often used as a silly example. At the time the officer was shot, the felon was down and the officer mistakenly thought the battle was over. Yes, the felon lived, but only because of medical help arriving as a result of the officer's radio call before he died. All firearms are potentially lethal. Had the officer secured the downed bad guy first, before making his radio call, this would be a different story. Shot placement really is key, even if by luck.
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I was using this in reference to another poster who believed that the effective use of a handgun automatically guaranteed the fight to be stopped. That example of a perp taking 5 shots of .357 CM, killing the officer, and living to tell about it debunks that theory, and it is not an isolated incident.

Rifles create much more trauma, are able to shoot at much increased range, and fire though cover that will stop handgun rounds. Rifles are preferable in almost every situation imaginable, but it's truly a matter of getting to one, since they are not nearly as handy as a pistol.
 
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i live in a house within yards of being next door to 2 nice old ladies i'll be using my .357 loaded with low recoil .38's to get me and or my family to our safe room where i'll grab my 12 g shotgun with rifled slugs to finish the job if need be.Yes i do sit around with my .357 on my hip at all times.

I just hope by the time i get to the shotgun every one will either be ducking or the b/g will be down.i do not cherish the thought of anyone getting shot but i really will be upset if it's my family or neighbors.I don't see the need to use a rifle in a confined or even a limited space.That and i don't have a real rifle nor would i pay full price for a rifle,scope and ammo.My shotgun is my rifle
 
Someone said, to my statement that I had never heard of anyone taking deer slugs and fighting back- that some guy took two slugs point blank and still killed the other guy with a hammer? Dam, either it was the incredible hulk or we better then hope that there are not alot of guys running around to cause mayhem, that can take deer slugs! What do you escalate to in that case, a grenade launcher? Maybe they were .410 deer slugs? :eek: Those worried about "zombie attacks" and such, that is for real super bad monster guy!
 
The scenario depends. Is it HD, in the nightstand? Are there kids in the house on the other side of that wall? Are you talking combat? Are you talking urban preperation for the hood and dope slingers? Pistol; .44 mag, rifle;AR-10, shotgun;12 ga that's cross-loaded with slugs and 00 buckshot. Could you be more specific on what you're talking about.
 
Meth cause these crazies to do incredible things, even with major holes in them. That's why a CNS shot maybe required to finally stop some of these bad guys.
 
But what about this idea of "stopping power"? There is a Taylor index that tries to capture this by working in the bullet diameter to the comparison.
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Keep in mind that the Taylor index is based on the idea of "knockout power" on big game, not stopping power. The Taylor index tries to measure "stunning" power on big game via a head shot, not a kill shot. Taylor was a hell of a hunter, and some might say an even better showman.

Basing your guide on energy isn't a sure way to measure effectiveness either. "Energy" puts a lot of weight on speed, with little consideration to mass. Both measurements are a little "fuzzy" on math and neither might be described as an accurate measure of a rounds effectiveness.

I think for SD/HD, it really comes down to what is the most effective weapon for your situation. Close quarters might be a handgun or shotgun. Longer distance, of course a rifle. In a perfect world, I'd chose my 7mm Rem Mag for self defense but rarely am I going to be a in situation where a rifle is the best tool for a 7 yard situation.
 
"The M-16 is a pretty poor rifle as far as stopping power goes."

I thought this too until I read the story of a guy shot with one where the bullet just opened up his WHOLE ARM like it had been cut with a fillet knife.

In battle against our ballistic armor,rounds like this have been thankfully less fatal but no less effective.

Any rifle round is way more powerful than most handgun rounds.

I got a real reality check twenty years ago when all the gun mags were talking up the 44 magnums and those sage old timers with their lever action 30-30's were laughing under their breaths.

The 30-30 remains a very effective round at close to medium rifle ranges especially hunting deer.

Even after all the modern wiz bangery has gone past.
 
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My pistol is always on my hip when I'm awake and dressed when I take my pants off in the house the pistol is still within reach but my rifles and house shotgun aren't. Most home invasions are instantanious you don't have time to get the long gun the invaders are already thru the wire.
 
"The M-16 is a pretty poor rifle as far as stopping power goes."

I thought this too until I read the story of a guy shot with one where the bullet just opened up his WHOLE ARM like it had been cut with a fillet knife.
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I'm not saying the .223 is not a good round. It is. It is just not a .308. Yes, it can tumble and it can do a lot of damage but it won't blow the backside off a horse, if you know what I mean. I WOULD trust my life to it but it is really on the lower threshold of rifle rounds.

A good friend of mine saw a guy literally cut in half (from head to crotch) by a full magazine of .223 coming full-auto out of an M16 during Vietnam. He was the medic and says he needed two bags for the guy. I don't doubt he saw it and I don't doubt it could happen. But that's moot. The discussion is really whether you need a rifle for self defense and the answer is an emphatic "No".
 
The emphatic answer is YOU MIGHT.

Ask the shop keepers in Los Angeles during the Rodney King incident inspired riots if they needed the rifles they were carrying to protect their lifelong earned stores from being destroyed?

As every military planner of every nation that seekls to do harm against America if they think the armed citizens are a threat to thier military aimes against America.

Their honest answer would be Yes.

(more on this later)
 
Inside a house I'd take the SG. Outside I'd still take a rifle. IMO a handgun is what you use when you cannot carry a rifle. (which is most of the time). Still ideally, the rifle is gonna pack a bigger wollop than a pistol.
 
In Indiana if you shoot a BG from beyond 21 feet, you are at fault, regardless if it's a rifle or pistol. A pistol is just as good from 7 yards away.
 
Are we talking about using this formula?

TI = bw/7000*v*DI

Where:
TI = Taylor Index
bw = Bullet weight, grs
v = bullet velocity, f.p.s.
DI = Bullet diameter, inches

I think Taylor put this formula forth as a relative measure of rifle cartridges on big game.
 
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In Indiana if you shoot a BG from beyond 21 feet, you are at fault, regardless if it's a rifle or pistol.
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Huh?? So, if a BG starts shooting at you and he is 10 yards away, if you shoot back at him and kill him you are at fault? Somehow, I doubt it.
 
I would like to see the cite on that 21 feet claim. First off is makes no sense. Second off, there are so few politicians in the world that even know what the 21 feet thing signifies, that it is very unlikely. What law is this?

It's like the guy behind the counter at the gun store who told me Open Carry was against a city ordinance. Strange because Washington State has a preemption law that say only the state can write gun laws like that and there is no state law about Open Carry.
 
Reply to Mello2u

Mello2u --

Yes, the Taylor index is what I referred to above applied (by me) to handguns -- I used it as a way of questioning the rule of "always use a rifle" when available instead of a pistol.

I still can't understand why a person would lay down a 357 Mag revolver to pick up .223/5.56 rifle if the target range is within 25 yards. We want the hardest stop, not the most definitive kill...
 
I live in the country, a small township in Ohio. We have stray dogs, coyotes and varmints. The Carbine is always loaded and ready for any trouble. My carry gun is loaded and ready as well but put up when at home. I sleep with a 45 auto next to the bed. I live one simple rule. If there is trouble, reaction time is crucial, my hand can get me to my rifle. And if my rifle is closest, no more problem. The only other thing, is a 12ga. 00 Buck next to the bed, but we where leaving those out of this discussion!
 
The pistol, any pistol is a defensive arm.

The rifle or shotgun is offensive or defensive. I saw a BG shot with a 1 oz 12 Ga slug at about 3 yards and a BG shot with 12 ga 00 buck from contact. Both were DRT, the slug was so devistating there is nothing short of divine intervention that was saving that guy and there was a DR with us at the time.

In the house for the rifle I use polimer tiped hunting bullets, less chance of over penetration.
 
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