Using a police simulator to train civilians

Wait, does this mean I shouldn't be using GTA: San Andreas as my training simulator? :D

I would love to try a police simulation, even though it does sound more like a fun virtual reality experience than a serious training tool.

And in all seriousness, playing Grand Theft Auto did make me more aggressive on my motorcycle. No joke, it was scary when I realized it. Point is, even if you don't take an activity seriously as a training exercise, it could still affect how you treat similar experiences in real life if you repeat it enough.

Ivan
 
One of my local ranges has one, and they even have a class that allows you to use it. I played around with it in my Defensive Handgun Class. It mostly has LEO scenarios. But it did have about 3 dozen civilian scenarios, each of which had 2 or 3 different ways (usually the BG would fight, run, or surrender) of playing out depending on how the instructor decided to run it. So in reality there were about 100 different scenarios that could be run on it for civilians. You weren't rewarded for acting like a hero, and as a matter of fact, more points if you could avoid a fight. It was actually quite eye opening because it put you in certain positions you might never have thought about before.

I wish I could remember the brand name. The instructor was saying that if you had a projector, screen and computer, the basic setup could be purchased for less than $1000 (included software, the light gun, and the camera that "captured" the shots).

I find them unrealistic and far too naive and simple, if for no other reason than the "bad guy" responds the same way each and every time, no matter what you do. It doesn't react, respond and adapt to your actions, and there's no sense of continuum. I found it to be simply a computerized version of the old good shoot/bad shoot walk and pop simulations they used to use in the old days ala Magnum Force.
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You were using an old one then. The one I played with allowed the instructor to change what was going to happen on the fly. Sometimes the BG would surrender as soon as your gun cleared leather. Other times he would run, or fight back. There were several times during most scenarios when the scenario could be changed. So even if you ran the same scenario, it wouldn't always play out the same way. Even running the same simulation file, you had to be on your toes because the BG might react differently...and there may even be a different person who is actually the BG.

I agree it's not perfect. But there's absolutely no training out there that can fully prepare you for an actual use of force scenario. But this kind of training, along with other types of live fire can certainly make you better. Saying their naive and simple would be like saying shooting at a target on a square range is too simple and ineffective. By itself, yes, it's ineffective. As part of a well rounded training regiment? Both of these activities will be helpful.
 
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Used FATS with Armored Transport years ago, great system, and it could definitely have civilian applications. Some of the scenarios we used were also aimed at bodyguards as well as police. I could see an updated civilian FATS with more rugged equipment becoming a very important training tool.
 
I'd appreciate it if you could find the name of that system!
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Unfortunately, I don't remember the name of the system. I haven't been to that range in a while either. I remember that the "light" gun was basically a Glock copy (would fit Glock holsters), but the name eludes me at the moment. I also think he may have been exaggerating on the price too, because most systems I've looked up online are in the $2500 range and up.
 
You would need a full background check before teaching civilians our tactics ... hate to be the one who first teaches and trains a gangbanger or mafia hit man, mentally disturbed or a wanted person police tactics... That would not be good.
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"police tactics" are pretty crude and simple certainly not a gem to be hidden from the public.

I train with cops(along with others) and they are always talking about how lazy and poorly trained the people they work with are and how they only do stuff once a year to qualify. We usually train 4-10 hours a week sweat drenched training.
 
Unfortunately, I don't remember the name of the system. I haven't been to that range in a while either. I remember that the "light" gun was basically a Glock copy (would fit Glock holsters), but the name eludes me at the moment. I also think he may have been exaggerating on the price too, because most systems I've looked up online are in the $2500 range and up.
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I'm familiar with that Glock or at least I tried a Glock that was fit for laser. It had a CO2 system that simulated recoil.
As for the system price, yeah, the sophisticated scenario systems I've seen are 5 figures. That's why low 4 figures caught my eye :-)
 
I guess training more might be better. I live and work in a small town as a Leo. Though we only qualify once a year, we work alone and knowing if you need it backup is a out 15-30 minutes out and that's a trooper or neighboring town to help out. So training is basically down the drain. Every stop is different, you handle them different and with your safety always #1. On stops or calls that get out of hand it's you're fixing to do this or get the crap beat out of you, then go to jail. There's no other option you got. There's no simulator that really teaches you stuff other than draw, not draw or shoot. That's when bad goes to worse. As far as it goes its mostly keeping individuals calm, smooth talking , getting down and dirty or drawing. Simulators are only those moments people train and probably (hopefully) wont ever need but I guess some people feel they now have superior training. Go on rides alongs you'll probably get more training. ESP in rural areas when a cop handles everything by himself call after call. We got three miles of interstate, that'd where I spent the last year on nights and weekends by myself, you'll surely get trained!!!
 
You would need a full background check before teaching civilians our tactics ... hate to be the one who first teaches and trains a gangbanger or mafia hit man, mentally disturbed or a wanted person police tactics... That would not be good.
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That's...funny. I have qualified AZ POST for 11 years. Even the new POST course is a far cry from anything that deals with reality. I would have to say you don't want to teach your tactics to a thug, (who doesn't care enough to take a class - the only trained thugs we are dealing with now are ex military gang bangers due to relaxed enlisting standards), from a liability standpoint as a private instructor, and I can understand and honor that, but regular POST training ain't all that special.
Simulators are a good training aid, when you can get to one. AT only had one that toured the country year 'round to every branch. That was a long time ago, and I'm certain the newer systems are far more advanced and interesting.
 
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I used one of the military video simulators several years ago (about 1997 or so) and it used reactive actual footage and M16s hooked to pneumatics so they actually functioned and recoiled. It was extremely realistic. It was at a big Army or Marine Corps booth at an outdoors show. I was just a kid but it struck me as really good training tool.
 
I'm familiar with that Glock or at least I tried a Glock that was fit for laser. It had a CO2 system that simulated recoil.
As for the system price, yeah, the sophisticated scenario systems I've seen are 5 figures. That's why low 4 figures caught my eye :-)
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Different system. The gun was really cheap. No CO2 or anything like that. The system was basically an off the shelf projector, an off the shelf Windows computer, an off the shelf projector screen, then the proprietary camera (to sense hits), the "light gun", and the software. I can't imagine the system being that expensive, since the setup wasn't elaborate. But I think the $1k mark might have been a little low.
 
Got to try FATS a while back, and more recently a MILO system. The MILO setup was nice as they'd been able to make their own (local PD) videos and integrate them into the system, so it was possible to set up scenarios in local settings. There were also plenty of other shoot/don't shoot situations, and as others mentioned, a controller has the ability to branch the scenario off depending on the participant's response (or pure evilness, such as the scenario where they had a mother suddenly decide that she'd rather shoot her kids rather than let the state take them).

But there were other fun ones...games for engaging multiple targets, shooting milk jugs out of the air, normal range qualifier settings, steel simulations, and even just rooms full of targets to clear. Rather expensive, but we were able to run all kinds of scenarios that would be difficult to try in other days.
 
In our department we sometimes use this simulator in a shoot don't shoot scenario. Manly for our officers but we will sometimes take it out and have civilians go through the same thing. It is not for training a civilian to use police tactics it is to show civilians how you do not always have time to evaluate a situation, other than on face value at that split second. Sometimes you have to react in a split second whether it is right or wrong and then justify why you made the decision. We used this once with the news media and had them run through it. We ended up having to transport one by ambulance due to elavated heart rate due to the perceived threat and their reaction to the threat.

It is only training you in police tactics if you are viewing it that way. It is more designed to train you into evaluting the entire scenario and not getting tunnel vision into one thing going on in that scenario and reacting to it.
 
I think most people with common sense can extrapolate. Making complex mental decisions as to when to confront danger is not part of muscle memory or something you do by accident. If a LEO who retires after 25 years can conduct themselves as average joes in society.. I don't think a few hours in a simulator is going to damage anyone's sensibilities. I would be more inclined to worry about airsofters LOL!
 
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