usefulness of "AR-pistols"
- Thread starter simonrichter
- Start date
One may be, the other, not so much. If you shoot one, you understand. If youre guessing, you dont.
Not necessarily. You can shoulder the buffer tube, thats not been a legal issue as of yet. Its easily done and not at all uncomfortable.
Technically, youre not supposed to shoulder the braces, do or dont, thats up to you. If you do, it somehow magically propels you into the NFA. If you dont shoulder it, your OK. Either way, the brace does make a difference.
I can shoot my AK pistols at 100+ yards with no trouble at all and with basically the same results as my 16" guns.
Personally, I see little use for a Mares Leg, and would consider that a "toy". The AR's are really more of a rifle than a pistol, and if "pistol" is what makes them acceptable, by all means, call it a pistol.
This is one of my PSA guns. With the suppressor mounted, its a tad shorter than my 16" guns, and as you can see, shoots pretty good at longer distances for a "pistol".
aarondhgraham
New member
They are the Mare's Leg of modern firearms,,,
They are the Mare's Leg of modern firearms,,,
Cute as all get-out and fun to shoot,,,
But that's about it.
Aarond
.
They are the Mare's Leg of modern firearms,,,
Cute as all get-out and fun to shoot,,,
But that's about it.
Aarond
.
AR15 "pistols" handle nothing like a Mares-Leg. For one thing, the 5.56 AR-15 has nearly negligible recoil.
I shoot mine with a two point sling just like a rifle, except that I don't shoulder it. I push the forearm out away from me and pull the pistol grip back. I put the buffer tube up to my cheek just like you would with a rifle, nose to charging handle for a consistent cheek weld.
I have the sling adjusted so that when I push the forearm out away from me it pulls tight around my back and keeps consistent tension. The side mounted sling on my handguard and front sight both act as a hand stop. I can actually wrap the sling around my forearm and pull it tight using the hasty sling method since my barrel is free floated.
Using iron sights or the red dot, I can ring steel gongs at 100y all day long. I can't do that with my 9mm sidearm. Not nearly as effortlessly.
I shoot mine with a two point sling just like a rifle, except that I don't shoulder it. I push the forearm out away from me and pull the pistol grip back. I put the buffer tube up to my cheek just like you would with a rifle, nose to charging handle for a consistent cheek weld.
I have the sling adjusted so that when I push the forearm out away from me it pulls tight around my back and keeps consistent tension. The side mounted sling on my handguard and front sight both act as a hand stop. I can actually wrap the sling around my forearm and pull it tight using the hasty sling method since my barrel is free floated.
Using iron sights or the red dot, I can ring steel gongs at 100y all day long. I can't do that with my 9mm sidearm. Not nearly as effortlessly.
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I wasn't meaning to sound like a 'nay-sayer'.
I've only seen one Mare's Leg being fired and because of the club rules it was said to be a center-fire rifle and had to be shot from a sitting position at a bench.
The AR pistol I saw fired was held very close to the face of the firer. Both seemed awkward.
I had a Mauser C96 and I was thinking the hold for that pistol would be the hold used on a pistol caliber AR pistol. You know Weaver or Isosceles?
I've only seen one Mare's Leg being fired and because of the club rules it was said to be a center-fire rifle and had to be shot from a sitting position at a bench.
The AR pistol I saw fired was held very close to the face of the firer. Both seemed awkward.
I had a Mauser C96 and I was thinking the hold for that pistol would be the hold used on a pistol caliber AR pistol. You know Weaver or Isosceles?
As to the Heizer, I almost think of it as a modern version of the FP45 Liberator...a one shot deal to a get a more viable firearm in an occupied scenario. I think it's interesting, but not something you'd want to run 100 rounds through at the range.
Now, there are a lot of misconceptions of the AR or AK styled pistols. These, I find intriguing and far more functional than most give them credit for. What they have become are pseudo SBRs without the NFA and cross-state-line hassle. I've been quite surprised by the ease to accurately and rapidly engage targets out to 100-150 meters with these "pistols". The rifle calibers are a little overbearing with muzzle flash, but having used a 300 Blackout with suppressor really shows the value.
Moving on down to 9mm type "pistols", they provide even more functional and versatile, especially when suppressed. If these are modern-day mare's legs, they are far more capable then their big-screen historical counterparts.
ROCK6
Now, there are a lot of misconceptions of the AR or AK styled pistols. These, I find intriguing and far more functional than most give them credit for. What they have become are pseudo SBRs without the NFA and cross-state-line hassle. I've been quite surprised by the ease to accurately and rapidly engage targets out to 100-150 meters with these "pistols". The rifle calibers are a little overbearing with muzzle flash, but having used a 300 Blackout with suppressor really shows the value.
Moving on down to 9mm type "pistols", they provide even more functional and versatile, especially when suppressed. If these are modern-day mare's legs, they are far more capable then their big-screen historical counterparts.
ROCK6
I think you asked a reasonable question. It's much better to ask than assume.
You definitely do not want to shoot one of these with your arms out front like a traditional handgun. It's too large and heavy for that and you'll never get it stable enough for any kind of accuracy. It would be no better than shooting a rifle or carbine from the hip.
Have you ever shot an AR15 rifle or carbine? (not trying to be insulting, just asking) You shoot the AR pistol same as the AR rifle/carbine.
You want a good cheek weld and your nose touching the charging handle. So yes, you do hold it close to your face. You use the buffer tube to your advantage. This is why on AR pistols, you usually see a pad on the buffer tube.
The only difference is you don't touch your shoulder. So you use a sling as the 4th point of contact. Instead of pushing a rifle stock back into your shoulder, you pull the AR pistol away with your support hand and use sling tension around your back to provide that extra stability.
It's not difficult, but it is a unique technique that a lot of people just don't know or understand. You won't win any Camp Perry matches, but from a standing, sitting or kneeling field position, I'd go up against a guy with a similarly equipped carbine out to 100y maybe even 200y.
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DMK
C96 isn't a light weight and I wished it came with the wooden holster.
I have an AR. When I can stand up and shoot I bring the rifle up to my head, I was taught not to lower or crane my neck down to make a cheek weld. I do this with all my rifles from 22LR thru .30'06.
My nose isn't close to the charge handle, bolt or back of the receiver. I only have peep or open sighted rifles.
My local range only allows rimfire to shoot from a standing position (yeah no prone or kneeling) all centerfire must be benched. A bit of a PITA but it is in the middle of Florida's most densely populated county, Pinellas.
C96 isn't a light weight and I wished it came with the wooden holster.
I have an AR. When I can stand up and shoot I bring the rifle up to my head, I was taught not to lower or crane my neck down to make a cheek weld. I do this with all my rifles from 22LR thru .30'06.
My nose isn't close to the charge handle, bolt or back of the receiver. I only have peep or open sighted rifles.
My local range only allows rimfire to shoot from a standing position (yeah no prone or kneeling) all centerfire must be benched. A bit of a PITA but it is in the middle of Florida's most densely populated county, Pinellas.
Nice gun! I bet that thing is kinda heavy.
Ergonomically, it's much different than an AR15 though. You have to use whatever advantage you can get. The AR pistol has that buffer tube. You can use it to your advantage, just like you can use the sling to your advantage. That buffer tube is one reason why I think AR pistols are better than AK pistols. You can't get the same level of stability with an AK pistol.
I believe it was the Marines that came up with the nose to charging handle thing. And they were doing it with iron sights. It's a way to ensure a consistent cheek weld so your eye is always in the center of that rear peep.
As far as I can see, the only physical difference between an AR "pistol" and a carbine is that the pistol doesn't have a butt PLATE.
As long as you still have the buffer tube sticking out the rear of the receiver, there is no significant advantage in length over a carbine with the same length barrel.
Remember, a "carbine" can have ANY length barrel, as long as it is shorter than the "standard rifle" barrel, it qualifies as a carbine. The Fed calls it an SBR if the barrel is under 16", but its STILL a carbine.
USEFUL??
Any functional firearm is useful, to some degree, in the right circumstances.
But I don't see any of these AR pistols being well suited to any of the traditional handgun roles.
It's also a uniform standard for teaching people who don't know how to shoot, to shoot your way. And the military is big on standards, whether they are the best thing or not.
Doesn't work so well if you're shooting something that actually recoils, though...
As long as you still have the buffer tube sticking out the rear of the receiver, there is no significant advantage in length over a carbine with the same length barrel.
Remember, a "carbine" can have ANY length barrel, as long as it is shorter than the "standard rifle" barrel, it qualifies as a carbine. The Fed calls it an SBR if the barrel is under 16", but its STILL a carbine.
USEFUL??
Any functional firearm is useful, to some degree, in the right circumstances.
But I don't see any of these AR pistols being well suited to any of the traditional handgun roles.
It's also a uniform standard for teaching people who don't know how to shoot, to shoot your way. And the military is big on standards, whether they are the best thing or not.
Doesn't work so well if you're shooting something that actually recoils, though...
I would say its as or more accurate than most pistols, assuming you could hold it in that manner and be consistent with it, which I think would be an issue for most trying to shoot them that way.
If your gun is equipped with peeps, youre not going to be using them like that. A red dot would be a better choice.
I really dont understand why you would be shooting it in that manner though. Makes no sense.
Even without a brace, and using the tube for a cheek weld (and even better, adding a sling), you can shoot the gun more accurately than you would most handguns, and at distances most probably wouldnt think of trying with a handgun. These really are SBR's, and not pistols.
If your gun is equipped with peeps, youre not going to be using them like that. A red dot would be a better choice.
I really dont understand why you would be shooting it in that manner though. Makes no sense.
Even without a brace, and using the tube for a cheek weld (and even better, adding a sling), you can shoot the gun more accurately than you would most handguns, and at distances most probably wouldnt think of trying with a handgun. These really are SBR's, and not pistols.
FairWarning
New member
They are highly efficient for speeding along your deafness and blindness. 
You probably won't have eye or hearing protection in a defense scenario, so the inescapable reality is that you'll have to face these issues. A suppressor and flash hider can help with this, but then you're getting longer and longer. I wouldn't bother with a barrel less than ~11" for .223 personally if I was going to do this. Such a device is not an ideal home defense weapon, so unless you are a real (not imaginary/internet) commando and are raiding buildings, or a drug dealer/gangster and need one for your trench coat, the only other purpose beyond fun I could imagine would be as car gun if you think you may be caught in a riot!!
I think a 9mm "pistol" could take care of this role, although as much as I love Sig, I am NOT paying $1800 for a freakin' 9mm!! The CZ Scorpion could be an option, but the 9mm "pistols" are really more or less toys IMO....that's not to say I don't want one! But the lack of practical uses + having to jump through ATF hoops to SBR puts them on the back burner for me.
You probably won't have eye or hearing protection in a defense scenario, so the inescapable reality is that you'll have to face these issues. A suppressor and flash hider can help with this, but then you're getting longer and longer. I wouldn't bother with a barrel less than ~11" for .223 personally if I was going to do this. Such a device is not an ideal home defense weapon, so unless you are a real (not imaginary/internet) commando and are raiding buildings, or a drug dealer/gangster and need one for your trench coat, the only other purpose beyond fun I could imagine would be as car gun if you think you may be caught in a riot!!
I think a 9mm "pistol" could take care of this role, although as much as I love Sig, I am NOT paying $1800 for a freakin' 9mm!! The CZ Scorpion could be an option, but the 9mm "pistols" are really more or less toys IMO....that's not to say I don't want one! But the lack of practical uses + having to jump through ATF hoops to SBR puts them on the back burner for me.