Used USP sold as NEW by a dealer.. help!

J

Joe Mama

New member
Just being the curious type, I called HK on a HK USP 9mm I bought 8/19/99 today. I asked if they could tell me the date of manufacture. After providing the date code stamped in the slide (KF) they informed me it was manufactured in 1995. I asked the dealer twice before I bought it if it was a new gun, and he answered in the affirmative both times. The receipt states it is new. Upon inspection, I found wear on the barrel from the slide and a sloppy touchup with a felt tip on the breach.

Question: Is it a violation of Federal statute to sell a used firearm as new?

I have already attempted to return it for a refund without success. He (the dealer) stonewalls and says it is new. The dealer claims it just came in a week ago. HK says no way a USP sits on the shelf for five to six years. Suggestions?
 
Get a lwayer, and have him contact the dealer. Have the lawyer mention things like looking into to dealer's FFA, supoena of books and records...supoena of ATF records of him.
That will make him turn honest

------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
-Did you pay by credit card? There may be recourse there.
-Did you pay by check? Get an attorney to see if you dare stop payment.
-Can you prove YOU did not shoot the gun?
-Perhaps contact your Attorney General and the Better Business Bureau.
-Tell all your friends, TFL folks, all bulletin boards, etc.
- I'm sure you'll get more and better suggestions, but to me the hard part may be proving YOU did not put the wear on the handgun. Your receipt or copy of the bill of sale should establish purchase date. Get written proof from the manufacturer as to date made.
- (grin) Get competent advice (rather than mine).
 
Ground Level has a good idea. In my area you cannot just go to the DA to file the complaint, you must file the complaint with the local LEA that has jurisdiction. The charge is fraud. If you live in a large enough city the will have a whole detective division dedicated for just this purpose. You will need to provide the pistol as evidence, but don't take it into the police station on your first visit.
 
Can the factory provide any info reshipment when and to whom etc.? Was any type of "warranty card" returned to the factory etc.?
YOUR dealer has a record of when and from whom it was purchased.
If the gun is otherwise OK you might get the dealer to refund the difference between a new and used one plus a (little extra)in return for you dropping legal action which could get ATF involved.
That is how I would handle it .

------------------
Better days to be,

Ed
 
Thanks for the input.

Some points:
1. New means new. Period.

2. How do I prove I didn't use it? How about if a cop pulls me over today and asks me to prove I didn't speed yesterday? You can't PROVE A NEGATIVE. :(

3. The fact that a warranty card is enclosed means nothing as HK does not stamp the serial number on the warranty cards.
In any event, by that logic, I could use the gun for a year or two, never fill in the card and the sucker I sold it to would have a NEW gun since the card had never been filled in. ;)

To those that recommended civil action: FRAUD is a CRIMINAL matter, and it will be dealt with as such.

Joe

Actions taken to date:
1. HK is doing a history on the gun.
2. HK authorized dealer is inspecting it.
3. Spreading the word to shooters and dealers in the area.

Next: Local LEA and DA meetings, next week. A sting operation would be just the ticket for this bozo.

J


[This message has been edited by Joe Mama (edited August 21, 1999).]
 
Hmm. My local dealer does the exact same thing. He prices by type of gun, not by condition. If he gets a 5 year old AR with the hell beat out of it, he sells it for the price a new model of that gun would go for.
 
One last time: The receipt says NEW. Not classic, not good as, not used-new, NEW!. Whether the price that I negotiated is "a good deal" is irrelevant.

Joe

BTW: The ATF, AG and HK all agree with the intepretation that Websters and any competent judge would have.

I'm tired of this BS.

Perhaps I will just resolve to eat the loss.

"I go forth from this place to fight again no more"

Chief Joseph of the Nez Pierce

'nuff said.

Joe


[This message has been edited by Joe Mama (edited August 22, 1999).]
 
Hi, Joe,

I agree that it is bad to have that feeling of having been taken. Many of us have had the same feeling; we somehow get over it and sometimes even find that the bad bargain was in fact a good one.

But if you are tired of all the BS on the thread, I can only mention that you started it by posting your complaint.

Jim
 
As mad as you may be, the fact remains.
You paid for it and you took it home.

Unless you can prove that someone else owned it prior to you it's your word against the dealers. He can just as easily say you did the damage to the gun.

Next time get the serial number on the gun and do a back ground check before you purchase. If a gun is almost 5 years old and it hasn't been sold there is a reason.

Don't get mad at people responding to your question unless you want to hear the answer.

------------------
"It is easier to get out of jail then it is a morgue"
Live long and defend yourself!
John 3:16
 
Angry, perhaps. Frustrated, certainly. Mad, not quite yet. :)

After spending way too much time on this and tracing the gun through 1 distributor and 4 dealers, I have resolved to sell the USP at a show and be done with it. :(

I will make a point of getting the word out on this disreputable dealer.
 
I didn't interpret Joe Mama's comment as tired of our BS. Well, I hope not. I thought he was tired of dealing with the BS from the dealer and what not. I know I would be.
Right Joe? You still love us, right?
Hugs and Kisses,
Marc
 
othermarc:

"I love you man!" I have the feeling I'm still not going to get the Bud Light or a new USP. ;)

You are right in that the frustration is with the dealer and not the contributors to this forum. My bad :o for trusting the *. I'll resolve to be more cynical in the future.

As far as getting the local cops involved, they are his number one customers. I suspect most of his "new" inventory is used LEO duty and/or non-duty. I don't imagine I'll get much sympathy or action there.

Oh, yeah: this is MOO.


[This message has been edited by Joe Mama (edited August 23, 1999).]
 
I had the same experience before. I bought a berrita at 1997. I highly suspect that pistol was a used one because I could see the wear on the slide and I only got one mag came with the pistol. I could not prove it so I took it. I never go to that store. After that, I learned one thing. You only go to a dealer with good reputation. Firearms are like jewlery. It is not easy to get refund. You could not tell whether it is used or brand new at the first sight. You are not allowed to disamble it when you buy it either. Right now, I purchase firearms from Jersey Armory. I don't worry about if I will get a used one.
 
Speaking of Glock refurbs, I bought a police trade-in Glock 17 which first went to the factory for a complete overhaul, parts replacement, and tuning. The guns so treated were then resold to distributors for eventual sale to the gun buying public. The package included a factory box with cleaning swab, brush, manual, and factory warranty just like new. BTW two hicap mags came with it! At no point during the transaction did my favorite dealer (B&B Westminster) characterize the weapon as anything other than a police trade-in, factory refurb. The price reflected same.
 
So, why not tell us who the dealer is? It is your right to publicly complain, and your DUTY to help other gun owners! I got taken by a dealer once. It was Military Collectors Consortium. I never miss a chance to tell how badly I was taken!!!! :(
 
FWIW, I've noticed that one gunshop in my area has a generous interpretation of the word "new." To me, "new" means straight from the factory or distributor and not previously retailed. OTOH, to this shop, "new" can also mean previously owned as long as the previous owner either didn't "use" the gun or fired it only very little. I think this definition is a stretch.

[This message has been edited by jimmy (edited August 27, 1999).]
 
Vince: The gunshop I frequent most often certainly does allow me to field strip the guns I'm looking at before purchase. I would be very suspicious of a store that did not.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top