Used rifle mistake - but is it the scope or rifle

J

joeranger

New member
Well it is not often that your wife urges you to buy a rifle, but her dad needed the money and I got sucked in to the "family heirloom" story.
She would have given her dad the money, so let's all agree that I got a free rifle instead of a $1000 kick in the nuts. I had posted a request for the value earlier, but now I just want to salvage some function out of it.
He used it for elk for years, but never fired it that much.

VOERE KUFSTEIN AUSTRIA
Cal. 7MM Rem Mag.
LAUFSTAHL 3
MOD 2165
2x7 Redfield scope with weaver mounts

I took it to the range and could not get on paper at 100yds so I asked the range officer to help me sight it. We put it in a gun vise and shot a huge paper target at 50yds. Shots were all over the place and one of the holes looked as if it keyholed. He assumed the scope was shot and suggested a new scope.

As temped as I am to let it sit in the safe forever, i would like to get it shooting without sinking a lot more money. Can you guys suggest a trouble shooting guide or should I just bring it to a gunsmith for an eval?
I am in the nw sub of Chicago.
 
If it keyholed, it sounds like the bullets aren't stabilizing - that's something entirely different from scope/sight issues.

First things first, take the scope off and try to sight it in using irons. If it works, the scope's the culprit.

Otherwise, try different weights of ammunition and be sure you're shooting the right weight for your barrel's twist-rate. If different ammunition shows the same results, you'll probably want to take your gun to a gunsmith.
 
A bad scope won't cause keyholing, so let's hope it didn't actually do that.


edit to add: looks like Skyyr beat me to it : )
 
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FYI: There's not a scope or bedding problem in the world that will make bullets keyhole.

Clean the bore carefully with solution and a bronze brush, then, check it while pointing into the sky or other semi-bright light. The bore should be bright and shiny all the way. Look for corrosion, seen as very dark areas in the bore or significant pitting, which looks like, well...pitting. :rolleyes:

Check the crown to see if it's sharp and smooth. No nicks should be present.

If all the above seem good, the ammo is suspect. Try a longer, heavier bullet, especially with round-nosed bullets. If the bore is any good, it should stabilize round nose bullets.

The ammo should provide the same felt recoil and sound when they're shot. If not, it's probably bad, but also check the firing pin by dry-firing to see if the snap is quick and apparently forceful. If there's congealed lubricant, it could retard the firing pin strike and cause the rounds to vary in velocity and fail to stabilize bullets, causing keyholing. Rounds would string more vertically than horizontally in that case.

Scopes can be checked somewhat by dry-firing. If the crosshairs jump when the rifle is dry-fired, the scope is probably bad. If the turret is tapped lightly with a non-marring instrument while looking through it on a solid rest, check to see if the crosshairs move or jump.

That's about all I can offer.
 
If all the above seem good, the ammo is suspect. Try a longer, heavier bullet, especially with round-nosed bullets.
Click to expand...
After cleaning the bore, I would recommend trying a lighter bullet. If the bullets are not stabilizing, a round nosed bullet would probaby stabilize, but a lighter bullet will likely work fine.
 
The Voere 2165 is basically a fancy Mauser 98k sporter. So any gunsmith should be able to rebarrel it if needed. But I agree that most likely the barrel is copper fouled and a good cleaning should do the trick.
 
If its been in the closet for years I would suspect the
crown.
Click to expand...

Why? If it's been in the closet, it probably hasn't been moved/banged around much. If it was kept in a closet/safe, the crown is the last thing I'd suspect.
 
Maybe the paper just tore in a way that looks like a keyhole but isn't. If it's just one hole that is suspect, I'd pay attention to the range officer's advice and look at the scope and mounts.
 
Are you 100% sure that it is 7mm Rem Mag? I haven't seen many European rifles in 7mm Rem Mag. Is it marked that caliber? If not marked, I'd have a chamber casting done. The wrong ammo would do that also. I've seen rifles with tags stating the caliber mismarked on gunstore shelves. The reponse was....."well that's what the guy said it was when he traded it in." Usually builders mark the barrels when they rebarrel an action. In one case recently it was a K98 all original except a cut down stock......tag was marked "30/30 Win." Not a single mark anywhere stating it was 30/30. It was marked "7.92" He got an 8mm rd and a 30/30 rd and compared them. He agreed that if it chambered the 8mm rd it definately wasn't a 30/30. Guess what, he changed the tag really quick. Maybe just an idea, but worth checking at this point to eliminate a bunch of guessing.
 
My experience with “Old tymers” Is, they are propped in the corner of the
closet, Every Christmas the wife knocks it to the floor getting decorations down.
Come spring it hits the floor again when sliding boxes around.
Catch-my-drift? :rolleyes: That Mauser has been around a long time.
You just never know over the years what has happened.
I never said a closet safe. Safes have not been popular accept the last 20-25 years. I would hope its been in a safe taken care of but.....
 
You know buymore, I was wondering that too, since the Voere website doesn't list the 7 Rem Mag as an option. But the cartridge is so large, I can't see what the rifle would be chambered in otherwise and you can still get the round into the action. Could be a 300 WM, but that's as unusual for Europe, and also not listed.
 
Wow, thanks. The RO did suspect the 7mm Rem mag might be the wrong rd, but I am not 100% it keyholed. Lot's of info here. I will try the cleaning and ammo first.
This is great info and gives me a place to start that doesn't involve buying an expensive scope...
 
got any drill bits?

A letter drill either an "H", "I" or "J" should slide into bore of a 7mm.
For 8mm either a "N", 3/16" or "O"

You might have a European clambering, instead of US.

Use a tight fitting cleaning patch and slowly push down the bore should be constant resistance.
 
Joeranger, Mark your casings with a Magic Marker or something before you fire them and check for stretching and other marks that might indicate that your chamber is made for something else or other errors that might otherwise make themselves known...
 
Sounds very odd. Wonder if it is a European cartridge or a rechamber job? I would consider having a chamber cast made and/or rebarreling the rifle to a known caliber/cartridge.
 
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