mapsjanhere
New member
Kraig, you need to edit the wikipedia entry on the M1917, according to them Eddystone only made 1.18 M M1917, and your serial number is 1.21 M.
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US Model of 1917 Eddystone
- Thread starter Rocky23
- Start date
Jim Watson
New member
The spacing between Model 1917 and Eddystone is wider on the OP's than others I find pictures of.
I think a Darra 1917 would be a great war trophy. I don't know that I would shoot it much if any; they do neat work with mystery metals.
I wonder why they would bother. I mean they have been making SMLEs and AKs that are standard equipment in that region, why copy an obsolete US rifle?
I think a Darra 1917 would be a great war trophy. I don't know that I would shoot it much if any; they do neat work with mystery metals.
I wonder why they would bother. I mean they have been making SMLEs and AKs that are standard equipment in that region, why copy an obsolete US rifle?
I wonder why they would bother. I mean they have been making SMLEs and AKs that are standard equipment in that region, why copy an obsolete US rifle?
My guess would be the prestige of owning an "American" rifle.
Mike Irwin
Staff
I have never heard of a Khyber Pass copy of an American bolt action rifle at all.
I can't even conceive as to how any got over there to be copied, unless the British shipped to that area the M1917s that we sent them during World War II.
I can't even conceive as to how any got over there to be copied, unless the British shipped to that area the M1917s that we sent them during World War II.
1. The markings are definitely "off". I have no idea of the origin of the rifle and won't even speculate without better pictures and information.
2. Eddystone made over 1,376,000 Model 1917's. If it says otherwise, Wikipedia is wrong. (Not for the first or only time; it is a good quick reference, but not one to depend on as the only source.)
3. Obviously, the OP can find many Eddystone Model 1917's in the U.S., but that is the ONLY one he captured in Afghanistan. If it is a fake or copy, that is not bad, it is even better because it is unique, not one of 1.3+ million.
4. It is my understanding that GIs have been allowed to bring back guns that qualify for antique or Curio and Relic status. That rifle is not an antique, but would be a C&R. If I were the OP, though, I would assume the markings are correct for "bringback" purposes. If they are not, then the question may arise as to when it was made, etc., etc. If they are correct, and you get my point, bringing it back might be easier.
Jim
2. Eddystone made over 1,376,000 Model 1917's. If it says otherwise, Wikipedia is wrong. (Not for the first or only time; it is a good quick reference, but not one to depend on as the only source.)
3. Obviously, the OP can find many Eddystone Model 1917's in the U.S., but that is the ONLY one he captured in Afghanistan. If it is a fake or copy, that is not bad, it is even better because it is unique, not one of 1.3+ million.
4. It is my understanding that GIs have been allowed to bring back guns that qualify for antique or Curio and Relic status. That rifle is not an antique, but would be a C&R. If I were the OP, though, I would assume the markings are correct for "bringback" purposes. If they are not, then the question may arise as to when it was made, etc., etc. If they are correct, and you get my point, bringing it back might be easier.
Jim
tahunua001
New member
it's up to CO discretion... good ole Captain Luther wouldn't let us bring guns back to the states regardless of antique or C&R status... pist me oft, I wanted to bring back a genuine egyption AK(minus trigger group and receiver to keep it legal), oh well, he was still a heckuva lot better CO than Miller ever was.
Its definitely been restocked. A real keeper I would like to see larger pictures of all the parts
A bit more background.
The Brits before WWI decided they need something better than the less than accurate slug throwing SMLE in 303 (that was loosing big time to marksmanship matches to the US)
Ergo, designed a modern, rebated high pressure 276 cartridge (not the first time a 270 cartridge would not live to see the light of day)
When WWI hit, they had no spare production, massive rifle losses and they needed weapons. Ergo, contacted Remington and Winchester to converted the 276 to a 303 caliber (and was not popular as they liked the SMLE but filled needs)
As it turned out, the SMLE was a pretty fine rapid fire gun and suited the trench war well (close distance for the most part) and the Pattern 1914 had fewer rounds, and at least as made in US heavy action work compared to the SMLE and damned heavy to boot (pushes 10 lbs).
Winchester and Remington ran out their contract and as stated, US needed rifles and those two were setup for thousands a day and the US armories were still hand building only 100s of the 1903s. It worked as it had been designed for a high pressure cartridge, easily handle the 303 and has been built up in custom guns up to 454 Winchester so its no slouch. Ergo, 30-06 was an easy conversion.
I think between Remington/Edsiyson plants and Winchester something like 2.5 million were cranked out in 2 years.
Hell of a good sniper rifle with irons as they have the rear peep, long sight distance and a very nice square front sight.
I know of one first hand account of finding one in Vietnams cache.
Chinese were given 200,000 in WWII (yep, they refurbished them and put them in storage!) It would be likely from China.
200,000 or so went to Philippines but none has ever been reported back from there (bad place for preserving gun!)
A bit more background.
The Brits before WWI decided they need something better than the less than accurate slug throwing SMLE in 303 (that was loosing big time to marksmanship matches to the US)
Ergo, designed a modern, rebated high pressure 276 cartridge (not the first time a 270 cartridge would not live to see the light of day)
When WWI hit, they had no spare production, massive rifle losses and they needed weapons. Ergo, contacted Remington and Winchester to converted the 276 to a 303 caliber (and was not popular as they liked the SMLE but filled needs)
As it turned out, the SMLE was a pretty fine rapid fire gun and suited the trench war well (close distance for the most part) and the Pattern 1914 had fewer rounds, and at least as made in US heavy action work compared to the SMLE and damned heavy to boot (pushes 10 lbs).
Winchester and Remington ran out their contract and as stated, US needed rifles and those two were setup for thousands a day and the US armories were still hand building only 100s of the 1903s. It worked as it had been designed for a high pressure cartridge, easily handle the 303 and has been built up in custom guns up to 454 Winchester so its no slouch. Ergo, 30-06 was an easy conversion.
I think between Remington/Edsiyson plants and Winchester something like 2.5 million were cranked out in 2 years.
Hell of a good sniper rifle with irons as they have the rear peep, long sight distance and a very nice square front sight.
I know of one first hand account of finding one in Vietnams cache.
Chinese were given 200,000 in WWII (yep, they refurbished them and put them in storage!) It would be likely from China.
200,000 or so went to Philippines but none has ever been reported back from there (bad place for preserving gun!)
Actually, the Pattern 1914 was the .303 version of the Pattern 1913, which was in the .276 Enfield caliber.
The conversion was first done at Enfield, but the bulk of P-14 production was in the U.S., since British factories were already making the SMLE Mk III and that production could not be interrupted.
When the British P-14 contracts were completed, the U.S. was near getting into WWI and the U.S. Army worked with Remington and Winchester to convert the P-14 to .30-'06 caliber and make that rifle, the Model 1917, for the Americans. Most of the U.S. soldiers in WWI carried the Model 1917, though regular Army and National Guard units kept their M1903's.
Note: Folks sometimes confuse the .276 Enfield with the .276 Pedersen, whcih was at one time all but adopted by the U.S. They are far from the same; the British round is fat (.523" base) and much more powerful than the .276 Pedersen. Designing the P-13 for the .276 Enfield meant a very large magazine for 5 rounds, so 5 rounds of the rimmed .303 fit easily, while the magazine will accept 6 rounds of the slimmer .30-'06.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=83948&d=1348849327
Jim
The conversion was first done at Enfield, but the bulk of P-14 production was in the U.S., since British factories were already making the SMLE Mk III and that production could not be interrupted.
When the British P-14 contracts were completed, the U.S. was near getting into WWI and the U.S. Army worked with Remington and Winchester to convert the P-14 to .30-'06 caliber and make that rifle, the Model 1917, for the Americans. Most of the U.S. soldiers in WWI carried the Model 1917, though regular Army and National Guard units kept their M1903's.
Note: Folks sometimes confuse the .276 Enfield with the .276 Pedersen, whcih was at one time all but adopted by the U.S. They are far from the same; the British round is fat (.523" base) and much more powerful than the .276 Pedersen. Designing the P-13 for the .276 Enfield meant a very large magazine for 5 rounds, so 5 rounds of the rimmed .303 fit easily, while the magazine will accept 6 rounds of the slimmer .30-'06.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=83948&d=1348849327
Jim
Gaucho Gringo
New member
Eddystone was actually owned by the largest steam locomotive builder in the world and oldest surviving locomotive builder in the US, Baldwin Locomotive Works(BLW). At the beginning of WWI it was incorporated as a separate company but owned by BLW to produce weapons and munitions because BLW's corporate charter forbade them to do so, probably because the founder had Quaker leanings. It is covered in a book "The Locomotives That Baldwin Built" by Fred Westing. In 1917 part of the plat was leveled by an explosion that killed 129 people.
Actually, the Pattern 1914 was the .303 version of the Pattern 1913, which was in the .276 Enfield caliber.
James: I stand corrected. Bad boy, no biscuit.
shuvelrider
New member
When I was at Bagram, you could purchase the knock-off Martinis and other British guns at the local bazaars. You had to take it over to the Customs Office to get the piece of paper from them, that OK'd your purchase as a non gun to send home. Many guys thought they were buying actual antique guns, I would tell them of a website devoted to "Kyber Rifles" and what to look for.
The gun in question sounds like an actual Kyber gun used over the years, somewhere along the way the afghans had their hands on an actual Mod of 1917 to copy it. That would make a neat piece to any collector, let alone for this soldier to keep it in his family as a relic from his service. I do hope he can get it sent home.
The gun in question sounds like an actual Kyber gun used over the years, somewhere along the way the afghans had their hands on an actual Mod of 1917 to copy it. That would make a neat piece to any collector, let alone for this soldier to keep it in his family as a relic from his service. I do hope he can get it sent home.