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From what I've read, which might not be right, the winning design becomes the property of the U.S. government. The government will then ask gunmakers to bid for the opportunity to BUILD the guns in question.

But, even if that is NOT the case, and the winning design remains the property of the company, developing a weapon to meet the MHS requirements still takes a large investment of time and capital, and some companies aren't sure it's worth the effort.

From the online NRA/American Rifleman (Feb 4, 2016)

Some companies have bowed out of the process altogether. The recently introduced Ruger American Pistol was designed to meet many of the requirements set forth for the XM17. But Ruger's management decided it was a bad investment to participate in the program.​

The same article says:

But that has not scared other manufacturers away. Glock will be submitting guns, as well SIG Sauer with its new P320. Fabrique Nationale—through U.S. subsidiary FN America—has confirmed it will submit a striker-fired 9 mm pistol, and Smith & Wesson is betting on a variant of the M&P. Last I checked, Heckler & Koch was on the fence, but Beretta is definitely participating.

More info, here: http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2016/2/4/keefe-report-let-it-snow-army-delays-xm17-pistol-deadline/

An earlier (09/2015) article said:

But the likely challenge for competitors is navigating the intricacies of the military’s program and costs — reasons why Mike Fifer, chief executive officer of Sturm, Ruger & Company, told investors in July during a conference call why Ruger is not participating.

“There’s enormous cause to participate and an extremely low likelihood for any one company of winning it,” he said.

“If you win it, obviously you’re in the capital receipt for the next 25 years, but I have a feeling competing for it’s going to be a little bit like being hit against a brick wall, and you’ll feel real good when you stop,” he said.

“The risk factor of putting the huge investment of time, people and money into competing for something that there’s really very low likelihood of winning even if you have a much better product,” he said. “And so those are kind of the pros and cons right there.”​

Details here: http://www.guns.com/2015/09/02/army-officially-solicits-new-handgun-finally/
 
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Winning this contract is like the 'opportunity' to host the Olympics, anymore; practically a kiss of death in pursuit of vanity for all but the strongest players.

"In exchange for a massive capital outlay on your end that won't be paid off for decades, as well as the complete hijacking of your corporate resources from all other markets indefinitely, we'll pay you a modest per-unit bonus on top of what you show us (by law) it actually costs you to produce these weapons. And when the contract is up for renegotiation long before you have recouped your development costs, you will be forced to compete on a level playing field with other companies who we will license your design to for free"

Ooh, how tempting...:rolleyes:

More like; "yeah, I think we'll just stick with making more money than we ever thought possible in the civilian market for the time being" :p

TCB
 
Ruger All-Amrican is my pick!

Not a bad thought.

Looks like the Army wants a "plastic fantastic" pistol.

Personally I like the M9 just fine. An updated 1911 with maybe a tactical rail is an even better choice.

I'm not a fan of plastic guns, but maybe the Army is.
 
Isn't S&W throwing in with general dynamics or some such for a bid, with the M&P?

My understanding as well, because supposedly, the requirements also meant having the ability to produce the ammo
 
S&W made a deal on March 3rd. with General Dynamics to have them make their new hammer-forged, military grade gun barrels for Smith & Wesson.

The barrels will be for a Smith & Wesson M&P pistol, which is being offered for the U.S. Army's XM17 Modular Handgun System competition.
Sounds like a great marriage.

BTW. Nissan and Toyota etc. has autos made in the US. Does that made them an American Company? IMHO, I don't think so.

Doc
 
As I've said before... The P320 will take the win on this.

The reliability factor alone is incredible. The guns just run and run. The ergonomics are simple but excellent. Trigger is great. I don't care about the modularity aspect - thoguh the military does. What I like about the removable FCU is ease of cleaning. Pop it out, spray it down, stick it back in, and you're good to go. While it does have more parts than Glock, the entire frame and slide can be detail stripped without any tools at all.
 
Nissan and Toyota etc. has autos made in the US. Does that made them an American Company? IMHO, I don't think so.

The requirement -- imposed by Congress some years ago -- is NOT American-owned, it's American-made. The U.S. buys all sorts of weapons from Beretta, Sig-Sauer, Glock and FNH, and they're certainly not American-owned. All of these companies have their own factories here in the U.S.
 
^ Walt beat me to it. We've had this debate a few times on the forum, about made in the US versus made in the US by an American owned company. The reality is a lot of American companies have at one point or another had a controlling interest of their company in the hands of foreign investors (like S&W). For that matter, is an "American" car made in Canada (like my dad's Buick) really more American than a Honda or Toyota made in the states?

For me personally, as long as the firearms are made here I don't care who makes them. My main concern is Americans having jobs. If an American company makes the best product then all the better, but if the best product is FN, HK, or Beretta and they'll make them here than I don't have a problem with that. I'd rather the best tool for the job. As for SIG Sauer in Exeter, their ties with the original company overseas aren't very strong these days and to my knowledge the American branch operates primarily as its own entity.
 
I've never heard of Detonics before.

Back in the day, through 2 or 3 incarnations of the company, they specialized in a very compact 1911(-ish) called the Combat Master.

I've shot one. Decent, but these days other things make more sense.

The current version of the company doesn't look like it's very active.

Where can I get a extra copy of the MTX Owners Manual?

We are in the process of editing the MTX manual. It should be back up sometime in the middle of June 2014. --http://www.detonicsdefense.com/#!mtx/c10gd
 
Yes, Americans get jobs and make money. But the real money goes back to the Foreign Countries that own these businesses. This is why McCain wanted the contract to go to an American made product by an American Company. As an American, I prefer to buy American made by American Companies whenever possible. It is a win win for the USA.
IMHO, the union between S&W and General Dynamics was a super move on their part to make the new modular Hand gun for the Army. If chosen, they have the "ability" to make a "super weapon" as General Dynamics has done for over 35 years for the United States Military. So, if their weapon is as good or better than the others, now what would you prefer?
Doc
 
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Yes, Americans get jobs and make money. But the real money goes back to the Foreign Countries that own these businesses.

It really doesn't, because those companies have American branches of their firms. They still pay taxes on those American branches. If they don't, then they pay importation fees on everything they bring in. Trust me when I tell you that Uncle Sam makes sure to get his share.

This is why McCain wanted the contract to go to an American made product by an American Company.

As I've stated, SIG Sauer is for all intents and purposes American. It has had branches in the states for decades and is separate from the original company. Just because it wasn't formed in the country initially does not make it unAmerican, imo.

IMHO, the union between S&W and General Dynamics was a super move on their part to make the new modular Hand gun for the Army. If chosen, they have the "ability" to make a "super weapon" as General Dynamics has done for over 35 years for the United States Military. So, if their weapon is as good or better than the others, now what would you prefer?

If think there's a lot of ifs in this statement. I don't see any pistol as a "super weapon". It's frankly of limited importance to the average soldier, airman, marine, or sailor. General Dynamics typically makes crew served type weapons, not handguns. They do have experience dealing with the nightmare that is DoD procurement, so I imagine that is the idea behind S&W getting their assistance.

If the combined product yields a pistol that according to the trials is the best entered, then great. Again, my goal is to have the best product (my goal in this case would not be to even have this competition). If that's S&W great. It it's SIG great. If it's Joe Bob great. I care about performance. It will have to be made in this country either way and as I stated Uncle Sam will get his share.
 
Here's my original question." Here's my question. The bids are in and down to 3 companies to provide the US Army with a new modular side arm.
Who do you think will win and why???"

Try and stay on point on this please. My fault for arguing with TunnelRat.We don't see eye to eye on anything except that the Army gets the best modular hand gun that it can get.

Doc
 
I think the Sig will win. Hard time thinking the Detonix no name will win, nor the hideously ugly Beretta.

I personally think this whole thing is a joke. They should have gone with the M9A3. It just makes so much sense money wise. This is doing a disservice to the taxpayers.
 
They should have gone with the M9A3. It just makes so much sense money wise.

What kind of money are we talking about, here? I haven't seen that part of the discussion. Nobody seems to be talking about costs, right now. I wonder if the DoD even has a target budget amount? I do know that Senator McCain thinks it's all a big waste of money.

I wonder what McCain thinks about the F-35 strike fighter which comes in three flavors: Air Force, Navy, and Marines? The latest figures I've seen for those aircraft is that when they are finally in production, after development costs and many upgrades (both hardware and software) they may EACH run as high as $238 million. That's a lot of handguns...
 
The answer is simple. Go back to the 1911-A1. The best side arm the military ever had next to the Colt SAA. The 1911 is modular, fires a big powerful round and is easy to operate. What more is there? This question by the government is really not very bright.
 
It will be a S&W M&P 45 variant. Mark my words.. The SIG P320 would be my second guess but SIG will have to fix some things on it. The P320's biggest issue is the loosely installed pins in the FCU. Pull the FCU out of the grip module and pins start dropping out...it's a pain in the ass and a real liability in a service pistol.
 
Going back to 45 would be a huge mistake. The army wanted 9mm in 1946 and conducted extensive testing that proved it beat 45 as a military round then. Politics kept it from happening 70 years ago. The myth of the 45 is mostly just that a myth.

On today's battlefield a round that defeats light body armor and barriers is needed. 9mm does that much better than 45.
 
It will be a S&W M&P 45 variant. Mark my words..

....the M&P 45 isn't even in the running.... where are you coming up with that?

The P320's biggest issue is the loosely installed pins in the FCU. Pull the FCU out of the grip module and pins start dropping out...it's a pain in the ass and a real liability in a service pistol.

100% nonsense from someone who obviously doesn't own one. There's only one pin that could potentially come out when the FCU is removed and it's the trigger stop pin which just helps to stop over travel. Even if it's missing it has zero effect on the reliability or accuracy of the weapon.
 
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+1 Jmr40,

I personally think the Army is focusing on the wrong piece of gear. A better use of DoD funding would be R&D-ing a lighter more flexible and multi hit capable body armor. The next thing on the list would be to retro fit all M4s with a lightweight Keymod or MLok free float forend. The Knights armament rail turns what should be a 8lb rifle into a 10lb rifle, doesn't free float, and needs to go IMO. They also need to forget a new pistol in favor of fielding more XM25s, no direct experience with it myself but I can see how it could be a total game changer.

The pistol is probably the most inconsequential weapon in the military's arsenal.
 
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