Unknown tool used to remove rust on blued guns.
- Thread starter Venom1956
- Start date
I think if you look at anything that closely it's going to look alarming.
For reference, the two pictures showing the entire magazines are about 3x magnification and the two closeup pictures are roughly 20x magnification.
For the record, I'm not advocating that people go around scrubbing their high-dollar guns with steel wool just for the fun of it--this is about rust removal. We're trying to remove rust without further damage to the finish.
What I'm trying to prevent is people damaging their blued finishes by rubbing rust particles around on their bluing. From experience I can say that it is very easy to damage a blued finish if you do that. Using any sort of removal tool/method that holds the rust particles in place and allows them to be rubbed around on the surface will cause the blued finish to be abraded and damaged by the rust particles abrasive action.
On the other hand, it is quite easy to remove rust without damaging the finish at all (at least no damage visible at magnifications up to about 20X) if you follow my advice to use the steel wool dry and dust both the surface and the steel wool off frequently to keep the rust particles from building up. Initially I use very light strokes and dust the surface and the steel wool off every stroke. That's because a lot of rust comes off at first and you want to get it off the surface and out of the steel wool. You can get a little firmer when the surface is mostly rust free and you're working at removing the last little bit.
In no case should you vigorously scrub like I did in my experiment. My test didn't involve any rust particles at all so no matter how hard I scrubbed or how long, there wasn't any significant abrasive action on the finish. But if you're doing rust removal there will always be a few rust particles that can damage the finish if you're not careful or if you scrub hard.
I'm not theorizing. I damaged several blued finishes using the typical oil & steel wool rust removal process before I finally realized that it was the rust and not the steel wool doing the damage. I have not damaged any blued finishes since I have begun using the steel wool dry and have begun taking steps to prevent the rust particles from building up in the steel wool and/or on the surface.
The experiment and the two 20X photos above demonstrate that steel wool, by itself, even used completely dry, is remarkably benign on a blued finish in spite of vigorous rubbing.
Should people go grab some steel wool and start aggressively rubbing their blued guns just to see what happens? First of all, there's no need--I've already done that experiment and posted the results. Second, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that if you need to remove rust, don't be afraid of using 0000 steel wool gently and without oil to remove rust. It's very effective and in my experience it won't damage a blued finish if used as directed. And even if you use something softer than steel wool (such as bronze wool), use it without oil so you don't scrub the removed rust particles around on the finish.
For reference, the two pictures showing the entire magazines are about 3x magnification and the two closeup pictures are roughly 20x magnification.
For the record, I'm not advocating that people go around scrubbing their high-dollar guns with steel wool just for the fun of it--this is about rust removal. We're trying to remove rust without further damage to the finish.
What I'm trying to prevent is people damaging their blued finishes by rubbing rust particles around on their bluing. From experience I can say that it is very easy to damage a blued finish if you do that. Using any sort of removal tool/method that holds the rust particles in place and allows them to be rubbed around on the surface will cause the blued finish to be abraded and damaged by the rust particles abrasive action.
On the other hand, it is quite easy to remove rust without damaging the finish at all (at least no damage visible at magnifications up to about 20X) if you follow my advice to use the steel wool dry and dust both the surface and the steel wool off frequently to keep the rust particles from building up. Initially I use very light strokes and dust the surface and the steel wool off every stroke. That's because a lot of rust comes off at first and you want to get it off the surface and out of the steel wool. You can get a little firmer when the surface is mostly rust free and you're working at removing the last little bit.
In no case should you vigorously scrub like I did in my experiment. My test didn't involve any rust particles at all so no matter how hard I scrubbed or how long, there wasn't any significant abrasive action on the finish. But if you're doing rust removal there will always be a few rust particles that can damage the finish if you're not careful or if you scrub hard.
I'm not theorizing. I damaged several blued finishes using the typical oil & steel wool rust removal process before I finally realized that it was the rust and not the steel wool doing the damage. I have not damaged any blued finishes since I have begun using the steel wool dry and have begun taking steps to prevent the rust particles from building up in the steel wool and/or on the surface.
The experiment and the two 20X photos above demonstrate that steel wool, by itself, even used completely dry, is remarkably benign on a blued finish in spite of vigorous rubbing.
Should people go grab some steel wool and start aggressively rubbing their blued guns just to see what happens? First of all, there's no need--I've already done that experiment and posted the results. Second, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that if you need to remove rust, don't be afraid of using 0000 steel wool gently and without oil to remove rust. It's very effective and in my experience it won't damage a blued finish if used as directed. And even if you use something softer than steel wool (such as bronze wool), use it without oil so you don't scrub the removed rust particles around on the finish.
Bill DeShivs
New member
John is correct. Rust is iron oxide-an abrasive commonly used to polish metal.
I prefer to soak the rusted part in WD 40 for a while, to soften the rust. Dry it, and then do the scrubbing with steel wool. When you are finished, flush the part with WD 40, dry, then oil.
I prefer to soak the rusted part in WD 40 for a while, to soften the rust. Dry it, and then do the scrubbing with steel wool. When you are finished, flush the part with WD 40, dry, then oil.
Point 1) Your experiment was tried on a matte blue magazine. Try it with a polished blue gun. This is not a theoretical concern, I've seen plenty of scratched guns from people who tried to remove the rust dry.
Point 2) You may be right about the rust contributing to scratching, but the thread is about removing rust, not rubbing nonrusty guns for the heck of it. Rust is going to be present by definition.
Yes, if the rust particles get rubbed around on the finish they will scratch the finish. That can happen whether you use oil or don't. The point is that if you use oil you can't avoid it because the rust particles WILL stay on the finish and in the steel wool.
But if you use the steel wool DRY then you have a chance of dusting the rust particles off the surface and out of the steel wool to prevent them from being rubbed on the finish any more than is absolutely necessary.
Yes it is. And to minimize finish damage one needs to minimize the amount that the removed rust is rubbed on the finish. If you use oil you won't be able to get rid of the removed rust particles because the oil will make them stick to the surface and the steel wool.
I've tried it on matte blue and on polished blue. I've tried it with and without oil. The finer the finish the easier it is to see any scratches, but one thing is clear regardless. If you use oil it's much harder to avoid scratching the finish.
The point of the experiment and the photos is to show that steel wool, even 00 steel wool (coarser than is typically recommended) is pretty easy on a blued finish even when it is rubbed on the finish with no oil present.
The assertion has been made repeatedly that 0000 steel wool will certainly damage a blued finish if used dry. The experiment demonstrates that steel wool is not what's causing the damage even if used dry unless the user is very vigorous. I wouldn't recommend rubbing a highly polished blued gun hard with 00 steel wool, but if you use a little bit of care 0000 steel wool should be safe when used with no oil.
Thanks for all the informative replies about the tool and dealing with rust on bluing! 
Now my SR9 is my only stainless gun... Any suggestions about how to buff out scratches on that since its not really a 'finish' but the actual metal?
I'm going to try and post pictures of it later.
Now my SR9 is my only stainless gun... Any suggestions about how to buff out scratches on that since its not really a 'finish' but the actual metal?
I'm going to try and post pictures of it later.montelores
New member
The "Frontier" type pads shown above are not "coarse" (not that anyone claimed that they are).
It has been explained to me that these type of pads actually make very little contact with the gun surface when rubbed upon it. What seems to happen is that the "flats" of the pads lie mostly parallel to the gun surface, and therefore the contact patch is spread out over a larger area, thereby minimizing abrasive "points" of contact.
For rust removal, I soaked the rust spots for a lengthy period in Kroil. I wiped much of the rust prior to "scrubbing", but having an oiled surface, rubbed with the pads, wiped frequently and re-oiled, left no detectable scratches. I did expect there to be scratches from the rubbing, so I was gentle at the start. The results were quite remarkable.
The point being made about rust being abrasive seems to be a good one, however rubbing the surface without a lubricant sounds a bit frightening.
Some have advocated using copper "Chore Boy" pads, because the copper will not leave iron oxide.
Monty
It has been explained to me that these type of pads actually make very little contact with the gun surface when rubbed upon it. What seems to happen is that the "flats" of the pads lie mostly parallel to the gun surface, and therefore the contact patch is spread out over a larger area, thereby minimizing abrasive "points" of contact.
For rust removal, I soaked the rust spots for a lengthy period in Kroil. I wiped much of the rust prior to "scrubbing", but having an oiled surface, rubbed with the pads, wiped frequently and re-oiled, left no detectable scratches. I did expect there to be scratches from the rubbing, so I was gentle at the start. The results were quite remarkable.
The point being made about rust being abrasive seems to be a good one, however rubbing the surface without a lubricant sounds a bit frightening.
Some have advocated using copper "Chore Boy" pads, because the copper will not leave iron oxide.
Monty