Universal Background Check and Universal Gun Registration-Breitbart

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The Right to Continue Living many not be in the US Bill of Rights but in my mind the Right to Life and to Continue Life Trumps all other Rights. In the Bill of Rights or Otherwise. Life is the most sacred right there is.

So you may all quote whatever you want or Belief you have but again this is my belief

I also believe that if I need to take your life to preserve mine then so be it just as you all have the same right to preserve yourselves.

If someone incurs a brain injury or jumps the mental tracks and suffers a meltdown then just maybe they shouldn't be allowed to have a dangerous weapon of any kind. Right now we do not have a solution to deal with that, that works.
 
I say change the constitution. It’s meant to be changed if needed. There’s mechanisms in place to amend the constitution. Others beliefs do not change what the government is allowed to do to individuals.
 
The Right to Continue Living many not be in the US Bill of Rights but in my mind the Right to Life and to Continue Life Trumps all other Rights. In the Bill of Rights or Otherwise. Life is the most sacred right there is.

So you may all quote whatever you want or Belief you have but again this is my belief
Be that as it may, our the US Constitution deals only with the powers that our gov't has, and the limitations on same. As zuikiphile notes, it lays out the rights that one has as against the gov't. Whatever right(s) you may have as against private parties are a different discussion.
 
I don't argue that there is a record of guns sold and guns transferred at a FFL for online sales or private transactions..MY point is the probability that those records will end up being in a fed data base for confiscation of guns. It's possible, certainly. Give me your name and about 10 minutes and I'll know your SSN, address, phone number too.

The 'registration' that was completed at the Tanner gun show for that Glock 43 I bought was done by the seller..the BGC was done by the nice lady who was doing them for 3-4 different sellers in a little 4 table enclave. She didn't know what I was buying.
 
Why would it have to be in a federal database for confiscation to happen? Colorado is registering guns at the state level, according to its own statute.
 
Why would it have to be in a federal database for confiscation to happen? Colorado is registering guns at the state level, according to its own statute.
Regardless of the level, and in spite of a DEM trifecta in state government, confiscation isn't anywhere on anybodies radar.
Rep. Jared Polis says he thinks banning weapons possessed by law-abiding people violates the Second Amendment: "I believe it would make it harder for Colorado families to defend themselves and also interfere with the recreational use of guns by law- abiding Coloradans," Polis said. "If we want to reduce violence, we should invest in improving our schools to ensure that young people have jobs and do not turn to gangs, crime or violence of any form, and improving access to mental health services."

He IS a politician but...BTW-YOU CAN own a AR type weapon in Boulder..just need to 'register' it.

Besides, 'it is what it is'...short of storming onto the streets, we follow the law and support candidates who coincide(as much as possible) with our beliefs and principals. Last midterm turnout was 47%..2016 turnout was about 62%...VOTE...or forever hold your tongue..:eek:

As I said somewhere else..Pro Gun people and organizations are losing the messaging 'war'..yelling and screaming while displaying a AR type weapon on Pearl St mall might get 'some' riled up but it riles those who want to see them gone, much more vigorously.
 

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Regardless of the level, and in spite of a DEM trifecta in state government, confiscation isn't anywhere on anybodies radar. . . .
Isn't on anybody's radar?!? I'll have to just plain ol' disagree with you on that one. One side has been saying for well over 20 years that taking the guns is exactly what they want to do. Here's a blog where some of those quotes (many of which I've seen and remember) have been collected. Nobody Wants to Take Your Guns.
 
Isn't on anybody's radar?!? I'll have to just plain ol' disagree with you on that one. One side has been saying for well over 20 years that taking the guns is exactly what they want to do. Here's a blog where some of those quotes (many of which I've seen and remember) have been collected. Nobody Wants to Take Your Guns.
It isn't on 'anybody's radar' in the Colorado state legislature. Besides..confiscation with regards to the present makeup of SCOTUS and the stated position of the majority of Dems, and the difficulty of changing or eliminating ANY constitutional amendment..Not too worried about anybody coming to my door and trying to take my guns.

Yes, there are some very vocal congress-people who yell this from time to time but generally speaking, short of a 28th amendment, repealing the 2nd..isn't going to happen anytime soon, IMHO..

Heller, with all it's warts, said,
District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008),[1] is a landmark case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm, unconnected with service in a militia, for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home, and that the District of Columbia's handgun ban and requirement that lawfully-owned rifles and shotguns be kept "unloaded and disassembled or bound by a trigger lock" violated this guarantee.

Confiscation of everybody's guns is the opposite of the above..
 
It isn't on 'anybody's radar' in the Colorado state legislature. Besides..confiscation with regards to the present makeup of SCOTUS and the stated position of the majority of Dems, and the difficulty of changing or eliminating ANY constitutional amendment..Not too worried about anybody coming to my door and trying to take my guns.
I don't think it will happen in a door-to-door manner. Little by little, This will be outlawed, then That will be outlawed, then the "see-something-say-something" campaigns will take over. This or That will be confiscated from drunk drivers, divorces will turn into Turning In Your Ex, which will result in confiscations . . . .

Yes, there are some very vocal congress-people who yell this from time to time but generally speaking, short of a 28th amendment, repealing the 2nd..isn't going to happen anytime soon, IMHO..

Heller, with all it's warts, said, . . . .
I've read Heller a time or two . . . .
 
I don't think it will happen in a door-to-door manner. Little by little, This will be outlawed, then That will be outlawed, then the "see-something-say-something" campaigns will take over. This or That will be confiscated from drunk drivers, divorces will turn into Turning In Your Ex, which will result in confiscations . . . .


I've read Heller a time or two . . . .
With the YUGE number of shootings in the US, still no AR type ban..so I don't think the above is imminent at all. 'Outlawed' is HUGE word...why there are lawyers on both sides but as I mentioned..the pro-gun/NRA-type groups need to learn some PR from the 'other side'..stop looking like they are the armed to the teeth 'enemy'. How many pro-gun campaigns, aimed at non gun owning but voting people, stress the 'sportsman', range shooter, leisure time activity,family outings of shooting. All you hear is 'pry from my dead fingers', 'I WILL NOT COMPLY', 'TRY TO TAKE THIS'..bad guys everywhere, and 'libtards/demacreeps' are the enemy. Take a look at youtube and search about guns or shooting and tell me what a lot of these guys say and wear.

When I did my CCW class, a solid hour was about red states and 'commie blue states'..with comments about various government reps.
...Gee, I wonder why Feinstein doesn't like the progun crowd..why are pro-gun people referred to as 'gun freaks'..messaging.

NOT saying you are ignorant of anything but the precedent has been set in stone, at the SCOTUS level..so considering that----> confiscation is a LONG and bumpy road.

Even the last AR type ban was for anything manufactured after that date..anybody who had one, could keep it.
 
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I don't disagree with you over the pro-gun side's PR problems. That's why I haven't been arguing about those.
I understand but any mention of a UBC and the 'slippery slope, confiscation is next' inevitably comes next..FEW disagree some system, trying to keep a deadly weapon out of 'some' who shouldn't have one, is a bad idea but the 'message' gets skewed immediately.

Both sides talk at each other, don't talk TO each other and until they do, this emotional conflict will continue with NO solution possible. Anything that is passed by any 'side' will result in people yelling at each other. Sign of the times.
 
Registration is not required to do a UBC but registration would be needed in an attempt to force compliance of using UBC, which is what I believe Breitbart and others are getting at. No registration and UBC are for the most part optional with little chance of being caught for not doing such unless gun sold was used in crime and recovered. I have read that states that require FFL transfer between private parties also are not havine a very high compliance rate though I am not sure how that is determined.

If all firearms were registered with strict and stiff penalties for non compliance then when Joe sells a gun to Bob, Bob will make dang sure he updates his registration info to show he now owns another firearm with make/model/serial number info he bought from Joe with Joe's UBC validation code and if Joe does not update his record within the designated time window he will have a stranger with a badge at his front door wanting to know why not and demanding to inventory his firearms and God help Joe if it does match the government record. At least that is how gun control folks would expect it to work.

Gosh I hope it never comes to that but I believe that is exactly what a lot of politicians want. Here in Illinois we firearms owners are registered and have a Firearms Owners Identification Card to buy guns and ammo but our firearms are not registered, at least not with any direct owner supplied information. If I want to legally sell a firearm to a private person I need to see their FOID card to get their ID number and DOB to enter it into the Illinois State Police FOID verification website and I would get an approval number if the FOID is still valid good for thirty days. The complete FOID database is updated daily to reflect any FOIDs that have been invalidated due to info obtained about the FOID holder such as criminal convictions. When I then sell the firearm I need to document some info about the sale and keep that for ten years and info needed is FOID approval code, date of sale, name and address of buyer, and make/model/serial number of firearm. Though I am not fond of having to do that I would find such a system far preferable to having to register every firearm I own with specifics and serial number. However Illinois politicians are currently trying to make it so that when a private sale is made that it will be required to include specifics about the firearm including make/model/serial number to Illinois State Police in an attempt for back door registration. :mad:

https://www.ispfsb.com/Public/Firearms/FOID/PersonToPersonFirearmTransfer.aspx

https://www.gunrights4illinois.com/blog/how-to-sell-a-gun-in-illinois/
 
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Registration is not required to do a UBC but registration would be needed in an attempt to force compliance of using UBC, which is what I believe Breitbart and others are getting at.

I guess that's what I don't understand..When they do a BGC on me, they are saying it is legal for me to buy a firearm, not THAT firearm, but 'a firearm'. There isn't any guarantee I WILL buy one, probanly yes, but no requirement to follow thru with a purchase. Other regulations specify what firearms can be legally sold in the US..I don't see why registration is a necessary part of UBC..
 
I guess that's what I don't understand..When they do a BGC on me, they are saying it is legal for me to buy a firearm, not THAT firearm, but 'a firearm'. There isn't any guarantee I WILL buy one, probanly yes, but no requirement to follow thru with a purchase. Other regulations specify what firearms can be legally sold in the US..I don't see why registration is a necessary part of UBC..
Again registration is not what I want but I can see politicians wanting it to try and force people to use UBC for private sale due to fear that big brother has a database of what firearms they own and your inventory better match during a compliance check or you are looking at jail time. If no transaction happens then your database entries do not change because you don't report a sale to the registry folks. Of course registration comes in real handy in the event of any future firearm bans.

In a way it is kind of like speeding and running stoplights. It is against the law to do both but speeding is frequently done and running stop lights is not unusual. So what did states to further enforce the law? They installed cameras and radars to catch those that were speeding and running stop lights. They then used registration information of the vehicle to issue citations and fines to the owner in the registration record.

Let's say UBC is law of the land and everyone is supposed to used it for any firearm sale or transfer. Then a big school shooting happens and it is found out the shooter bought a rifle from a guy in the neighborhood not using UBC. What do you think gun control politicians will be demanding next?
 
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Here's a point that is rarely brought up, what happens to the people who FAIL a background check??

Other than the seller not selling them the gun? Nothing. (usually)

The previous administration bragged about how thousands of people had been kept from getting guns (I don't remember any more if they claimed 40 or 80 thousand, but it was a large number).

One reporter did some checking, and yes, thousands upon thousands of denials. Got any idea how many were prosecuted? (remember lying on the 4473 is a crime)

43 had been prosecuted, and at the time, there had been ZERO convictions.

No less an informed and august personage than the Vice President himself as asked about that, and he replied "We don't have time for that!"

I saw him say it. somehow, I think this kind of attitude at the top trickles down..

Not sure what the current administration is doing in this regard, probably about the same as the previous one, I suppose.

The oft stated purpose of background checks is to "keep people who shouldn't have a gun from getting a gun". So that those people will not have a gun to harm others with.

Background checks do not, and cannot stop people who do not have anything disqualifying in their background. Numerous mass killers have passed background checks, sometimes multiple times, because they had nothing disqualifying in the background.

People who fail background checks are essentially not being prosecuted for attempting to obtain a firearm illegally. Generally, the states consider it a federal matter, and the Fed, "doesn't have time for that".

Also, the stared purpose (preventing harm by preventing gun purchase/possession) becomes moot when the person buying the gun already has a gun (and a desire to do harm).

Even if the background check denies their current purchase, if they already have other guns, they have the tools to do harm, so a background check doesn't stop them by keeping them from getting a gun, they already have one (or 50...)

The UBC (in its various forms, differing only slightly, and all, to date, including the basis for registration, is being sold to the public as a cure-all, by 21st century snake oil salesmen. It's not, never was and never can be.

It is a stalking horse, deliberately crafted not to be able to meet what is being claimed for it, so that, when it does fail, it will be "proof" that stronger and more restrictive laws are needed. And, those laws will also "fail" and then even more will be "needed" until we reach the point of all private ownership being controlled, and when that doesn't stop random acts of violence, complete prohibition and confiscation will be the next "needed" step.

And, when THAT extreme measure fails to eradicate "gun violence", the gun banners won't care, they've achieved their goals, they will be protected by private security, the rest of us will be "protected" by the police, we won't legally have guns to defend ourselves with, and people will still be shot and killed by CRIMINALS for fun and profit.

The next time someone tells you how safe we would all be if we just took all the guns away, ask them if they would feel safe inside prison. There are no guns inside prisons. Just people. People who have been convicted of serious crimes. But not one gun among them. Would you be safe?

I doubt it...
 
USNRet93 said:
I understand but any mention of a UBC and the 'slippery slope, confiscation is next' inevitably comes next..FEW disagree some system, trying to keep a deadly weapon out of 'some' who shouldn't have one, is a bad idea but the 'message' gets skewed immediately.

Says the guy who just dismissed concerns about using unnecessary registration out of hand without offering argument or reasoning. Wonder how the message gets skewed? It’s almost like both sides have to listen or something.
 
Again registration is not what I want but I can see politicians wanting it to try and force people to use UBC for private sale due to fear that big brother has a database of what firearms they own and your inventory better match during a compliance check or you are looking at jail time. If no transaction happens then your database entries do not change because you don't report a sale to the registry folks. Of course registration comes in real handy in the event of any future firearm bans.

In a way it is kind of like speeding and running stoplights. It is against the law to do both but speeding is frequently done and running stop lights is not unusual. So what did states to further enforce the law? They installed cameras and radars to catch those that were speeding and running stop lights. They then used registration information of the vehicle to issue citations and fines to the owner in the registration record.

Let's say UBC is law of the land and everyone is supposed to used it for any firearm sale or transfer. Then a big school shooting happens and it is found out the shooter bought a rifle from a guy in the neighborhood not using UBC. What do you think gun control politicians will be demanding next?
I think, like Castro, the ? asked is why did he pass the BGC.
 
Says the guy who just dismissed concerns about using unnecessary registration out of hand without offering argument or reasoning. Wonder how the message gets skewed? It’s almost like both sides have to listen or something.
Ahhh, the interweb. Glad you know exactly what my concerns are from a few posts on a gun forum. I’d say ‘listening’ is a two way street.
Do you like the conflict? Between the two ‘camps’? See any solution? Start there.
 
Here's a point that is rarely brought up, what happens to the people who FAIL a background check??

Other than the seller not selling them the gun? Nothing. (usually)

The previous administration bragged about how thousands of people had been kept from getting guns (I don't remember any more if they claimed 40 or 80 thousand, but it was a large number).

One reporter did some checking, and yes, thousands upon thousands of denials. Got any idea how many were prosecuted? (remember lying on the 4473 is a crime)

43 had been prosecuted, and at the time, there had been ZERO convictions.

No less an informed and august personage than the Vice President himself as asked about that, and he replied "We don't have time for that!"

I saw him say it. somehow, I think this kind of attitude at the top trickles down..

Not sure what the current administration is doing in this regard, probably about the same as the previous one, I suppose.

The oft stated purpose of background checks is to "keep people who shouldn't have a gun from getting a gun". So that those people will not have a gun to harm others with.

Background checks do not, and cannot stop people who do not have anything disqualifying in their background. Numerous mass killers have passed background checks, sometimes multiple times, because they had nothing disqualifying in the background.

People who fail background checks are essentially not being prosecuted for attempting to obtain a firearm illegally. Generally, the states consider it a federal matter, and the Fed, "doesn't have time for that".

Also, the stared purpose (preventing harm by preventing gun purchase/possession) becomes moot when the person buying the gun already has a gun (and a desire to do harm).

Even if the background check denies their current purchase, if they already have other guns, they have the tools to do harm, so a background check doesn't stop them by keeping them from getting a gun, they already have one (or 50...)

The UBC (in its various forms, differing only slightly, and all, to date, including the basis for registration, is being sold to the public as a cure-all, by 21st century snake oil salesmen. It's not, never was and never can be.

It is a stalking horse, deliberately crafted not to be able to meet what is being claimed for it, so that, when it does fail, it will be "proof" that stronger and more restrictive laws are needed. And, those laws will also "fail" and then even more will be "needed" until we reach the point of all private ownership being controlled, and when that doesn't stop random acts of violence, complete prohibition and confiscation will be the next "needed" step.

And, when THAT extreme measure fails to eradicate "gun violence", the gun banners won't care, they've achieved their goals, they will be protected by private security, the rest of us will be "protected" by the police, we won't legally have guns to defend ourselves with, and people will still be shot and killed by CRIMINALS for fun and profit.

The next time someone tells you how safe we would all be if we just took all the guns away, ask them if they would feel safe inside prison. There are no guns inside prisons. Just people. People who have been convicted of serious crimes. But not one gun among them. Would you be safe?

I doubt it...
Excellent post and right on.

At least here in Illinois the FOID database is updated daily overnight if new info comes in the disqualifies an individual from having a valid FOID such as a conviction and thus can no longer legally own or posses firearms in the state of Illinois. From what I have read, depending on the information obtained the Illinois State Police will show up at your door demanding your firearms or the individual will get notification of suspension of his FOID and CCW and he has so many days to turn in his firearms to the Illinois State Police and if that deadline is missed then again they show up at your front door. Certainly not a perfect system but far better than the almost total lack of doing anything at the federal level.

Reasons why Illinois FOID was revoked. I am not saying I agree with all these reasons without knowing more information about them, such as mental health issues, but this is the list.

https://www.chicago-criminal-dui-lawyer.com/Criminal-Defense/FOID-Card-Denials-And-Revocations.shtml

Reasons Why Your Application May Be Denied, Seized Or Revoked
There are a number of reasons your application may be initially denied or later revoked by the Illinois State Police Firearms Services Bureau. Continuing eligibility requirements generally focus on the following areas:

Criminal history: Many denials and revocation are based on convictions for various crimes involving domestic violence, assault, battery, orders of protection and all types of felonies.

Drug use: A person who has used or been addicted to an illegal drug, has failed a drug test or is a medical marijuana patient registry cardholder is not eligible for an FOID card.

Legal presence in the U.S.: An FOID cardholder cannot be an illegal alien, be present in the U.S. under a non-immigrant visa or renounce his or her U.S. citizenship.

Mental health: A person who is developmentally or intellectually disabled, has been a patient in a mental health facility or is deemed a mental defective may have his or her application denied or card seized upon commitment.
 
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