Undergunned with a revolver??

Your signature line is the answer!

If you don't want to spray and pray, don't get a 9mm. Use your money to buy ammo for your .357 or better yet buy a reloading kit and start rolling your own. Then practice, practice, practice. Learn to reload your GP with speedloaders and speed strips and even loose rounds with your eyes closed. If you just have to buy a new gun then at least get something in a more effective caliber. I'm not knocking the 9mm. It is an easy to shoot cartridge that you can fit lots of in a full capacity magazine. I just think it is a step down in effectiveness and all around usefullness from a full power .357 mag. I've done exactly what you are doing (asking TFLers to make a buying decision for me). Until one fellow said "If you need somebody else to talk you into buying something, you probably don't need it!" Advice is great and the information that has been given is valuable. But the final decision is up to you. My advice? Trust your instincts and put your faith in your .357!
 
Frontlander,

So if you were in the same situation, what decision did you come to? Where did you go on the issue?

Please help!

Sincerely,
Mntneer357

P.S. About $350 is all I have to spend on either weapon. Either the P95 or a .357 Mag can be picked up for that here in Columbia
 
I had the same decision to make, I chose the GP100 and have been very happy with my decision. The GP100 is VERY durable and should not wear out in your lifetime. It is also very versatile in that you can fire .38, .38+P, and .357 ammo. You can always buy a Semi later.
 
Since your main concern seems to be a civil unrest scenario I think you would be better served with a rifle. For the price of a Ruger P95 you can get a SAR-1 version of the AK rifle. And if you go this route get it now because do to a BATF ruling when the current crop is sold out there won't be any more.
 
Mtneer. I bought a used Dillon 550B reloading press with all the trimmings for .357, .44 mag, and .223 for $300. I learned to cast my own bullets. Now I shoot nearly every day for a fraction of the cost of new ammo. I'd say it has improved my shooting skills 100%, maybe more. You mentioned that you are going to have to be more self reliant in the near future. Well creating your own ammo from the ground up is about as self reliant as you can get. Just think, in your own home you will be able to make super accurate/super light recoil .38 wadcutter loads for small game and introducing new shooters to the sport, .38 special +p loads, full blown 125 gr. .357 defense loads, standard 158 gr. .357s and 180 gr. hunting loads that you can take deer sized game with at close range. These are just the ones I load, there are lots of other bullet weights and load combinations. Try to find a 9mm that can be that versatile while still being reliable. Your GP will handle every one of the different loads without choking and if it is like mine it will do it with fine accuracy. The only thing I would advise is to not get a progressive press if you are just starting out reloading. Get an RCBS reloading kit: it comes with a Rockchucker press (one of the best) a scale, and all sorts of other necessary little goodies. Cabela's has them as do most shooting supply companies. This will get you started and still leave you with enough money to stock up on powder, primers and brass,work on the trigger of your GP if it needs it, or to get a good handmade holster from a reputable maker. If you are interested in casting your own bullets I can give you some advice from my experiences as can several other experienced casters who frequent this board.
 
Hi Mtneer357,

I own several autos, but choose to usually carry a heavily customized Smith & Wesson .41 Magnum even though it weighs significantly more. Why? In my hands it is the most capable and accurate handgun I have ever fired. I just plain love revolvers and shoot them better. You can also press the muzzle of a revolver up against your opponent's body to make the wound even worse and it will keep on firing. Try that with an auto and watch it jam. Also, while reading accounts from actual shootings over the years, I love the way BGs shot with .357, .41, and .44 Magnum revolvers tend to either hit the ground dead or almost always go down very quickly in a very dramatic way. I've read too many accounts of people being shot with 9mm's "staggering around and then collapsing" for my taste.

In 1999 I took my trusty Smith & Wesson .41 Magnum with a three inch Magnaported barrel to LFI-I with Massad Ayoob. I was one of six revolvers in a class of fifty-five! Lots of revolver jokes were cracked, but they stopped laughing when I crowded their supposedly superior reloading times with my HKS speedloaders. In the end I shot a 275 out of 300 possible points using 170-grain JHP at 1200 fps. The guy that had the best score and beat Massad Ayoob shot a super tight 300 of 300 with his custom Smith & Wesson L-frame revolver against Ayoob's $2000 plus custom 1911 from Mark Morris. So much for the superiority of autos.

Have you ever considered two Ruger .357 Magnums? Perhaps one available to each hand in case the other is occupied fending a BG off, carrying your child out of harm's way, carrying a wounded comrade, etc.? That would give you 12 superior rounds of 125-grain JHPs at 1450 fps immediately on tap. The NYPD swore by this combination for years until switching to autos a few years ago.

A few years ago Frank James went to the National Tactical Invitational (NTI) with his custom Smith & Wesson .41 Magnum with his HKS speedloaders bouncing around loose in his jacket pocket. He finished second against all of those autos and was the only one in the top 20 who carried a revolver as a primary arm. In case you don't know, the National Tactical Invitational is the kind of contest in which they really try to kill you will all kinds of tricks and scenarios. As a backup to the .41 Magnum, Frank carried a Smith & Wesson Sigma in 9mm with preban magazines. Of the numerous high intensity shooting scenarios he went through he only drew and fired the Sigma ONCE.

If you are TRULY worried about the high volume firefight, buy yourself a rifle or shotgun and keep it within arms length.

If you are worried about being caught in public away from your long gun when such a firefight starts, backup your Ruger revolver with an identical model for consistency in handling and speedloaders.

If you really want to have lots of rounds on tap "just in case" then get a compact high capacity 9mm stoked with +P ammunition to back it up. Something like the P95, Glock 19, or Smith & Wesson 6906 come to mind.

I have a Sam Andrews shoulder rig I carry my Smith .41 Magnum in that carries it horizontally with three speedloaders on the offside. If I feel I might get caught in a situation that demands more firepower than my .41 and the backup Centennial I usually carry I'll slip a Colt Lightweight Commander into an Andy Arratoonian SOB rig in the small of my back, but it has been quite awhile since I have done that.

Remember what world champion Ray Chapman taught us...

"4/5 of speed is smoothness."

Practice your speedloader technique until it is very "smooth" and run some drills against your auto toting friends. You'll be surprised.

- Anthony
 
Anthony,

All I can say is WOW!

I wanted to give a heartfelt thank you to everyone who posted a response to my question. PLEASE, keep the responses comming!!!! TFL is really a great resource for those of us who are not either a. LEOs b. Special Forces operators c. Highly trained professional instructors (like Mas Ayoob, etc.) You all have helped more than you know.

Anthony, I appreciate your candor and honesty as well as your constructive suggestions for "which pistol for what use". After your post (and all the other truely wonderful suggestions) I am now considering:
A. Ruger KP-95 9mm
B. Ruger KGP-131 (3" version of my 4" pistol)
*hey it would be a BIT easier to hide in my car*
C. Ruger SP-101 2"

To be *completely* honest, I think one of the reasons I want an auto (9mm) is because that is all I see when I either look at my friends or when I watch television or a movie. Yes, I can admit it! Everyone these days has an auto! I just don't ever wanna be outgunned by some moron gang-banger who just wants my walllet at an ATM at 3 am. If he is spraying rounds at me, I want to be able to "change his intent" with a few accurate shots of my own.

I just need one other detail (with regards to my personal life to fall into place, and then I can make the plunge! Thanx for everything and please keep posting!

Sincerely,
Mntneer357
 
All good advice so far. I vote for getting the autoloader, learning to shoot it and then deciding what you like. It's only money.

John
 
357mag

Mtneer357,the real question is how varied do you want your gun collection? Do you want to be a handgun man or do you just want a belt gun to use as someone already said "to fight your way to a rifle or shotgun" ? I struggled with this decision too, I bought a kgp141 and I have shotguns that will protect out to fifty yards but I felt I needed one more gun.I try to keep things standardized and I personaly wouldn't want two handgun calibers so this is what I came up with, a marlin 1894cs in 357mag 10 round cap compact enough for easy carry and a reliable shooting out to 100 yards.
 
Why limit auto to 9mm

Ruger also makes a nice .45 semi-auto in their P-97. All polymer frame if I'm not mistaken. It will hit harder than the 9mm and it carries the same number of rounds.

Even with a 9mm, just because you have an semi-auto doesn't mean you need to spray and pray. Methodical slow fire or rapid fire with a quality semi-auto can be just as accurate as arevolver and you do it with 10 rounds. You can reload with one in the tube so its back in action immediately. I have a number of N-frame S&W's and a Ruger KGP-161. But that didn't stop me from also buying a Glock G-21 and a Springfield 1911A1 (both in .45 ACP). They all have their place.
 
Hello Again,

You're most welcome.

A couple of other things occurred to me last night regarding your post.

To me, the best places for a high capacity handgun, like the P-95 you are considering, are those which would logically make it difficult for you to reload quickly or have spare ammunition available.

One example of this might be a car gun you keep to guard against car jackings. If you had an initial exchange with several thugs, drove away, and they gave chase you would probably want to replenish your pistol. This can be difficult to do while driving. Having sixteen rounds on tap makes sense here.

Another would be a home defense scenario. Home invasions are becoming more common than ever before. If you're running down the hallway to gather your kids into the saferoom and you might be running into more than one BG a high capacity handgun in the caliber of your choice starts to sound like a really good idea. More importantly, few of us sleep in anything that has pockets to carry spare magazines. Although you can place spares in discreetly hidden spots along the path to the saferoom "just in case" you need them. This is why I keep a Glock 20 in 10mm Automatic loaded with Winchester Silvertips handy in my nightstand.

A final one would be when you might be up against a long gun and all you have is your pistol. Personally, I would rather have my .41 Magnum because with its extremely flat trajectory I know firing single action I can nail the torso of a man at 100 yards easily, but many would disagree. All it takes is one look at the tapes of the North Hollywood bank robbery to realize that a handgun in any caliber sucks if its all you have against those guys.

One last thought on long arms. If you like the idea of having a rifle with you as much as possible you might consider buying a Winchester 94 Trapper in 30-30. The rifle is short in the extreme with its 16 1/4 inch barrel and carries five rounds in the magazine. Add a buttcuff with some spare rounds and a ghost ring rear sight and you're set. Further, the old lever action does not invite a negative image from the public or law enforcement officers. In a rifle fight, the Winchester is still a force to be reckoned with. In a fight against multiple assailants armed with handguns you are in much better control with the rifle.

Just a thought.

- Anthony
 
You are not under-gunned

Mtnteer 357,

Your basic question is: "Undergunned with a revolver??" You must ask, under-gunned for what? Without trying to be a wise guy, you certainly are under-gunned against a platoon of Marines, but probably not against one or two felons breaking into your home. In sum, the key issues are: (a) what is the mission? and (b) does your KGP-141 (a GREAT revolver) meet the mission's requirements?

For a non-LEO, it is my strongly held opinion that six 125 grain .357 magnum rounds (such as HydraShok or Golden Saber) are more than adequate for every realistic self-protection scenario (e. g., I do not anticipate the need to protect my family against large numbers of BGs).

Finally, if you want to add further self-protection to you Ruger, why not a good (inexpensive and reliable) 12 gauge shotgun. The combination of a KGP-141 and a Remington 870 is tough to beat.
 
Since you have a revolver and a 870 you have a very solid core of self defense weapons.

If your more concerned about LA type riots than goblins at close range then you would be far better off getting a rifle, bolt action or semi auto, that uses detachable mags or stripper clips for loading. With a sight system that would let you make hits out to at least 200 yards from a rest.

If your more concerned about having to fight your way out of a riot with just what you carry [I thought you said you didn't have a CCW so carrying wasn't an issue?] then you should carry two handguns, along with plenty of ammo. Remember though that your not very likely to win against more than two goblins that are armed unless you have cover or concealment.

One person commented about shooting while driving. A friend of mine carried up to three handguns in combat as a US marine. He was stuck driving a lot so he could only shoot back with a handgun. For at least awhile he carried a 357, a 45, & a 9mm. They were not issue pistols, but this was in an actual combat area. I think the main reason he was carrying 3 different calibers, vs three 9mm's, was those were the handguns he had within reach when they shipped off [ie they were the guns he had when TSHTF not what he might have picked if he had the time to shop for the situation he found himself in]. And since he couldn't reload under fire while driving he carried all the handguns he had with him.
 
Ladies and Gents:

You all mention some very thought provoking statements! I am thrilled that so many people have been kind enough to grace me with their thoughts and suggestions. Thank you all and please, keep the posts comming!

At the present time, I am just trying to focus on which handgun to purchase. A good rifle (.308 or carbine in .357) is somewhere in my distant future.

In addition to my statement about "wanting a 9mm because that is what I see everywhere (friends, tv, movies, etc.), there is another factor.....this whole crappy "smart gun" thing has me worried.

I have heard WAY too much talk about "smart guns" for my liking. I think they are a bad idea to begin with and we certainly DO NOT need any legislation *mandating* that handgun manufacturers make all pistols with "smart gun technology." I don't want to see, touch, or God forbid *own* any handgun that comes with "smart gun technology." In my opinion, it's just a problem waiting to happen. Thus, I'd really perfer to get my ONE and ONLY auto before the lawyers start telling gun-makers how to make their guns.

So, that being said, I am still pondering my choices of:
A. Ruger P95 9mm
B. Ruger KGP-131 .357 Magnum
*for my car and to go with my KGP-141*
C. Ruger SP-101 .357 Magnum (OR a $ & W 66)

Am I just worrying about something that will never come to pass? Am I not thinking on the right track? Or am I correct in worrying about "smart guns"?

-Mntneer357
 
I own both the GP100 & P95DC. Love them both, and the P95 is among the best 9MM deals available today. If the SHTF:

1) Shotgun, repeating longarm.
2) My P95 is extremely reliable, and eats anything it's fed. BUT, the GP100 is always six-for-sure (pull right through a dud, no limp-wrist, etc).
3) P95 locks slide open on empty, with the GP100 you look stupid (or dead) when you lose count.....
4) P95 is quicker to reload, with 4 more shots before you need to. Clips seem to carry easier than speedloaders.

If (and only if) I had to choose one of these handguns for a defense situation, it would be the revolver.

If it's just to buy another gun, get a P95. No need to have two of the same thing when funds are limited.

However, practice time with each gun decreases as new and different ones are acquired. Theoretically, your proficiency with each individual piece drops as the collection grows (well, OK, I admit mine has). The bottom line still holds true: all other things being equal, you will ultimately (hopefully) grab the piece that you feel most comfortable with. And you won't know that until you try them all.
 
My 41(M57), backed by a couple of New York reloads (M58x2) and a coffee can full of filled speedloaders handy helps reduce my nervousness a bunch.

I've a 20ga. 18+" humpback Browning that handles like an M1 Carbine. Also a Winchester 94 Trapper in 44 mag.

And nothing wrong with a couple hi-cap nine's. Plus an Uzi, or an FN semi battle rifle, or a 12ga. semi riot gun if things really do get seriouser. Oh, heck, I got me a pair of 20" OAL Sirupati khukuris. One for the truck, t'other next to the bed.

Enough bucolic bovine byproduct outa me.
 
one question, have you ever shot a ruger 9mm, i have owned both and I found out that I am much mroe accurate with the revolver. I had a problem with the muzzle flip and the feel of the gun when the slide went back. May not bother you at all. can you rent one or something similar?

there are differnt types of revovler speed loaders, safariland might be better than HKS. I use HKS and they seem fine, but safariland has come out with some new ones are adjustable.

Ive went through the same problems as you, I ask will i need high capacity.

A mini-14 with some highcapacity mags might be money better spent.

Or a relaoding kit from Lee reloading
 
I think you are adequately armed with your GP100. As others have said, spend the money to gain some additional training or save the money for a rifle.

An AR-15 is one of the most customizable rifles available. You can get upper receivers with barrel lengths from 16 out to 24 inches (even less if you have the right permits) and you can swap out the uppers in no time flat. You can attach scopes, red dots, lights, and lasers to your heart's or checkbook's content. If you want high capacity for when the SHTF - try 20, 30, 40 or 100 round mags. The AR is good in close and can reach out to the goblins before they themselves are even in range. Plus you can get a .22 conversion and practice with extremely cheap ammo or buy a 9mm or .45 upper and use pistol ammunition w/hi-caps.

If you do not have a CCW then you are looking mainly at home defense. In that case your shotgun, a Marlin lever action in .357 or an AR would do nicely. If it is legal to carry in your car then use the GP100 to get to the rifle in your trunk. If your 6 shots + reloads of .357 don't do the trick -then you would be much better armed with a rifle than acquiring another handgun with 10 more rounds. If that doesn't work :eek: then make sure you got a good pair of Nike's. :D
 
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