Um, what if they try the gun-grab confiscations in TEXAS because of the new 'cane?

Sendec,
This is something that goes a little beyond a mayor or police official spouting off some flippant comment -- this is about an ORDER they sent down. Not just some random musing that was caught on tape... "I'd like to see all those people's guns taken away, that'd make me more at ease as my officers patrol." This was what they actually said policy would be.

WHO CARES whether they got officers to abide by the policy?! The fact that it was MADE policy is the problem here at this point.


And as far as the "one is too much" argument; I'm aware of the pitfalls of that one. This is quite different, though, from saying, "One death from accidental gunfire is enough to mean they should all be done away with." We can see that taken as a whole, gun ownership is more beneficial than detrimental.

What benefit can be said to derive from police officials confiscating the guns -- EVEN ONE OF THEM -- from law-abiding people who are using those guns to safeguard themselves, their families, and their property? :rolleyes:

-blackmind
 
Did everyone who was ordered to surrender guns in N.O. do so?
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Well, if you had typed anyone instead of everyone, I would have said yes. Names and circumstances are still being collected, but the NRA and SAF had enough evidence to file a motion in United States District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana requesting a temporary restraining order this morning to bring a halt to firearms confiscation. You can read more about it on my blog. (Howdoyalike that shameless plug?)
As far as everyone..... let us just say there is a logistical operation relocating buckshot from North Louisiana to more humid and aromatic regions. ;)

Did anybody say, "MOLON LABE" at all??
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"Let them be warned, they try to come to my house, they try to evict me, they try to take my guns, there will be gunfire." Ashton R. O`Dwyer Jr.
His statements were deliberate, publicized, and they went unopposed. I believe he meant what he said. I think the State Police on his street believed him too. Last I heard, Ash was still pissed off about having to use a slush bucket, but he was at home with several friends, armed, and left alone. He is not alone in his efforts.

I do not think confiscations will happen in Texas. The "infamous order" came from crooked Louisiana politicians who, as usual ,did not know the law, did not care about the Bill of Rights or the Constitution, and figured they could order whatever they wanted because of their office. I just thank goodness that men like Mr. O'Dwyer, were present in NOLA. The irony is that without sufficient documented confiscations, the legal eagles have less to go on. One of my sidelines is making sure people in shelters up here can call the number (888) 414-6333 if this has happened to them. I believe there will be enough, though. Numbers and names are obviously being kept under wraps at this time, but I believe it was more than just Ms. Konie.
 
And some Rangers will most likely resign and start a few riots themselves.
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A couple of years ago I would have agreed with you. Now, sorry, I dont see any large number of cops walking if the order was given to confiscate firearms.


As far as confiscations happening in Texas, I dont think so. I am sure many of Texans watched what happened in NO, and are prepared not to let it happen to them. Houston and NO may be liberal havens, Other than that, Houston "is like a whole other country". It wont happen in rural Texas, LEO's would draw back a bloody nub real quick if they tried.
 
The Rangers proved a while back that they would obey unlawful orders by going out of their jurisdiction to bring back some wayward state representatives. Sad but true, most people will obey unlawful orders. WWII Germany. My Lai. Abu Ghraib. I'm sure others could come up with more. But people live in the moment, and usually fear an immediate firing with resultant loss of income to feed their family with more than a lawsuit that may or may not happen, where they may or may not be found guilty. How many times have you heard people say, "If you won't do it, I'll get someone who will." They can make statements like that because they know that someone else will do it, be it make a speech (the most feared thing to most people) or violate someone's civil rights.

Do I think that an unlawful order to confiscate firearms will be given here in Texas? Nope.
 
Anyone ever hear of the 27 Palms survey? American troops are becoming more willing to fire on American citizens than ever before.
 
NO seems to be pretty liberal for a Souther city. I think Texas is a completely different animal. Also, lawsuits are already filed over the confiscations in NO. Finally, even if they tried I don't think they could find all the guns in Texas. To paraphrase the movie Miss Congeniality, "This is Texas, everybody has a gun!" :D
 
Sendec,
This is something that goes a little beyond a mayor or police official spouting off some flippant comment -- this is about an ORDER they sent down. Not just some random musing that was caught on tape... "I'd like to see all those people's guns taken away, that'd make me more at ease as my officers patrol." This was what they actually said policy would be.

WHO CARES whether they got officers to abide by the policy?! The fact that it was MADE policy is the problem here at this point.
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Uhm, isn't this the very thing sooo many have been demanding on various threads?
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Where's the praise/thanks for all the Officers who didn't obey an order they considered unlawful/wrong?
confused.gif

I guess just ignoring all the positiveness in that is what I expect of someone with an agenda or bias. Too bad really, a great point in LEO/Public relations is getting passed up and in fact is being turned negative by "The Police...this..that..." crowd.
 
Back around 1835 Texas had problems similar to those in New Orleans, in that those in charge were confiscating firearms.
Texans responded by making the Come And Take It flag, and started the Texas revolution for independence from Mexico.
It would be fitting to see lots of Come And Take It flags flying in New Orleans, and, once the wind stops blowing, down on the Texas coast.
http://www.comeandtakeit.com
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Where's the praise/thanks for all the Officers who didn't obey an order they considered unlawful/wrong?
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TBO-
It's right here:
Thank You to Every One of Them.

I've repeatedly tried to stress this angle, from the moment these reports started. We, as non-badged civilians, have a wonderful opportunity to give a well deserved Atta-Boy to what must have been THOUSANDS of LE and NatGuard who simply ignored the order and carried on with the relief effort.

The few reports we have are no less egregious due to the mass refusal to implement, but that blame should not be placed on our officer-brothers; rather it goes directly to the Commissioner's office and the Mayor's Office. To the extent there were a few cops out there who were zealous enough to comply, may they live a very long time with their shame.

Focusing on the incidents is focusing on the rank and file.....this to me is an enormous mistake and a real injustice. Focusing on the refusal to implement tells police officers nation wide what the public considers to be heroic action in any future attempt. We need to stand behind these guys and support 'em....they know who they are, even if we don't.
Rich
 
It'll be interesting to see if this was actually "made policy" or not. With the TRO being filed I would guess that there will evidentiary motions to determine if an actual policy was drafted. There hasnt been any mention of legislation passed in NO to support this policy.

Just cause the chief says it doesnt make it law. If there isnt an actual policy or ordinance to enforce the rank and file wont do a thing, agree with it or not.
 
If there isnt an actual policy or ordinance to enforce the rank and file wont do a thing, agree with it or not.
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SO, if there were a policy or ordinance, the rank and file would carry the orders out. hmm
 
Rich,

 my post was in reference to blackmind's post which I quoted, not you (the whole point of quoting text). You've made your point clear previously, nothing but thanks for your ability to look objectively at the entire matter.
Some folks are ruled by emotion or bias, and only look for the negative.
The glass will always be half empty for them.

TBO
 
TBO-
Clearly, I knew who you were responding to. I just wanted to emphasize, yet again, that not all of us agree with BM's position....in fact, I'd hope it's very few of us.

Something extraordinary happened between the time of Compass' "declaration" and the end of the rescue efforts. Either the "order" was quietly rescinded, which I doubt, or LEO's and Military by the thousands simply rolled their eyes and carried on. I expect much of this to come out in the NRA suit and I think it's a phenomenal opportunity for LAC's and rank-and-file LEO's to come together on a issue of common cause.

I don't expect everyone, on either side of the divide, to see things this way. Just enough.
Rich
 
"SO, if there were a policy or ordinance, the rank and file would carry the orders out. hmm"

No one said that. If you want to read that into it, well, its your assumption.

My point is that this "policy" Blackmind keeps refering to may only consist of the Commish's statement to the press. It may not ever have had the force of law or policy. We know that martial law was not in place, and there is typically no mechanism for a member of the nonlegislative branch of gummint to make up a law. There may be a mechanism for the police to issue an order under extraordinary circumstances, but that provision has to be based on legislation.

Parking during a blizzard is an example. Typically the city will have an ordinance that permits the CEO of the LE agency to order that on-street parking is prohibited. Without that ordinance the chief is powerless. I bet that if everyone here checked their local ordinances and state statutes they would never find one that gives authority for a blanket confiscation of guns from the populace.

Only an infinitesimal number of cops are going to carry out an order that is clearly not supported by law. So far at best their are two examples, and the underlying circumstances may or may not be clear.

It'll be "interesting" to see what the NO government does - they may claim that the chief was acting outside the scope of his employment and just cut him loose to swing on his own.
 
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