UK: Student's Gun Crime

+1 to USP45usp's comments.

The first law of economics is that a demand will be supplied. Criminals are highly motivated firearms consumers in part because they hang out with other criminals, who are highly dangerous people.

The drug cartels who find illegal ways to import hundreds of tons of illegal drugs into this country every year will find illegal ways to import hundreds of tons of guns into this country. The quality of those firearms won't matter, either; because criminals aren't interested in the legal, long-term use of those guns. My understanding is that almost any machinist with a lathe and bar-stock can make a cheap, no-good weapon that will last and work long enough for one crime to be committed.
 
Thats kind of like saying we can't eradicate disease, so lets not try :rolleyes:
At the ned of the day, this guy knowingly broke the laws of the country he was in, and paid the price. End of story. Maybe he should have got a decnt door lock instead.
 
Not really. I'm not aware of anyone who would classify diseases as potential social "goods." On balance, I think firearms ownership is a social good.

Your point on breaking the law and paying the price is, in this case, the fact of the matter.
 
Microbalrog Asks: FIVE YEARS?
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Actually kinda lite, considering all the charges
Illegal firearms, illegal drugs, illegal ethnicity in a recently bombed slightly paranoid country.

You gotta wonder who made the tip and why.
 
Chorlton:

That crazy British propaganda is well.... like I said.. .Crazy.... I like the quote at the end, "If you know someone has a gun, and you don't report them, you have blood on your hands."

Those crazy brits... I don't remember my hands covered in blood just for owning a gun.... but then again.... :p
 
I didnt bother to read your reply before or I might have replied by now. Well cosmo, I guess you can be glad you dont live there and I'm sure they feel the same. They are talking about guns in the hands of criminals and wannabe gangsters, not citizens trying to defend themselves. You keep on reading stuff into these things that just isnt there. Yeah those crazy brits with no school shootings :p
 
On behalf of the sane and rational inhabitants of Britain:

Please invade. Bring guns, steaks and proper girlie magazines where the ladies actually depilate rather than plaiting their leg-hairs.

Thank you.
 
Thats kind of like saying we can't eradicate disease, so lets not try
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Please, name one disease that has been eradicated. Did you know that in the US, diseases like polio, poxes, etc.. are making a comeback. I won't discuss the reasons why, but they are.

Diseases will always be out there, you can't 'ban' them, or eradicate them. It's just humanly impossible. They change, they adopt, they kill. The same goes for criminals. You can take them out of the picture for years but they will come back, maybe stronger than ever.

Yet, when you take the guns (the vaccine if you will) out of the hands of the people then the disease (the criminals) will overrun the people and kill more and more of them.

The problem with your way of thinking (no offense) is that you think that anything should be tried to stop the disease. And just like some medications, the cure may be worse then the disease. Just something to think about.

Wayne
 
Diseases will always be out there, you can't 'ban' them, or eradicate them. It's just humanly impossible. They change, they adopt, they kill. The same goes for criminals. You can take them out of the picture for years but they will come back, maybe stronger than ever.
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Specious argument, old stick. As of 1996, there was exactly *one* known cure for any disease. To whit, we - as a species - knew of exactly one drug that would kill a given disease-causing organism, and the biochemical reason why. We could plot the entire path of exactly one cure for a disease.

You can't ban 'em. The law of nature is not the law of man. However, they can be turned into a non-issue. Yes, new variants continue to spring up, and let's never mind why for this is a gun board not a bio board. But they will be whipped in the end, because science is the bastion of civilisation, and quality and extension of life is the byproduct of that science.

Whereas the urge to hurt and kill is a human nature issue, not an infection issue. It's 60-odd-million years of becoming genetically hardwired killing machines. It's amazing that we're as well adjusted as we are, given what our genome has had to do to get to the top of the food chain and grin down at all the heavily-armed, bigger, faster creatures that we serially butt-kicked from here to Basingstoke for the privilege. We Be Bad, sir. We are the Ultimate Bad Ass on the face of this little mudball, and we got here the hard way. I'm astonished that there are fewer people than there are who I meet on a day-to-day basis that I wouldn't cap out-of-hand just 'cause they seem a little too likely to eat my cats.

So on balance, when it comes to controlling the urge to make sure that it's only my own DNA that's getting predomenance, I'm doing darn well, thanks. So are most of the people around me.

But the problem roots in the tiny-but-noisy percentile of people who actually need laws not to be utter scumwads because they don't realise they've got a sentience layer atop their meaty beast-whacking instincts. The cure is perforce largely societal, and rooted in an acknowledgement of personal responsibility, but 500 years from now we'll still be sighing sadly to ourselves as we drop our handheld self-determination machine into the Clean Bag and wishing that t'other prat hadn't made us do that.

C'est ca.
 
"Bother," said Pooh as he called in an airstrike. I Love that Tag Line!

If I and my home were suddenly transmorgified into Britain, the Bobbies would pee all over themselves, the way my wife's dog does ~ if they looked into my "fun room". Yet somehow I have managed not to use any of these horrid devices in any manner of crime after all of these years. How in the world did I refrain?

Whereas the urge to hurt and kill is a human nature issue, not an infection issue. It's 60-odd-million years of becoming genetically hardwired killing machines. It's amazing that we're as well adjusted as we are, given what our genome has had to do to get to the top of the food chain and grin down at all the heavily-armed, bigger, faster creatures that we serially butt-kicked from here to Basingstoke for the privilege. We Be Bad, sir. We are the Ultimate Bad Ass on the face of this little mudball, and we got here the hard way. I'm astonished that there are fewer people than there are who I meet on a day-to-day basis that I wouldn't cap out-of-hand just 'cause they seem a little too likely to eat my cats.
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All too true, however; we got bad as a team effort. We are hard wired to be social animals as opposed to solitary animals, as a matter of survival - in point of fact it is our number one survival trait/skill/technique. It is the solitary animal among us that is aberrant.
 
Yet, when you take the guns (the vaccine if you will) out of the hands of the people then the disease (the criminals) will overrun the people and kill more and more of them.
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We are hard wired to be social animals as opposed to solitary animals, as a matter of survival - in point of fact it is our number one survival trait/skill/technique. It is the solitary animal among us that is aberrant.
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You guys been diggin under the rabbit cage for smart pills again?

Both of these would make good sig lines and will be used in future arguments with the antis in my life
 
No gun rights in GB

There are no gun rights, as we in the U.S. know them, in Great Britain. We can argue about how harsh it was for the guy, but he just couldn't possess a firearm and ignorance of the law is no excuse! However, what the British government, and the other EU nations need to realize is that guns are coming! Watch any of the goofy modern British gangster movies made by Guy Ritchie or a similar movie, which are very entertaining and full of fiction, but the truth is, with Eastern Europe having fallen over a decade ago, there are guns turning up throughout Europe. Don't know the answer to GB as to how to avoid the inevitable, but using the existing laws, like we should be doing here with our criminal element and them possessing firearms, is a start. I think 5 years is our potential federal punishment for a convicted felon in possession of firearms, too.
 
if you don't like the laws, then work to change them. And if you decide to be a scofflaw then don't complain when you get caught.
 
We are hard wired to be social animals as opposed to solitary animals, as a matter of survival - in point of fact it is our number one survival trait/skill/technique. It is the solitary animal among us that is aberrant.
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[hand raised] Uh, solitary? Aberrant? That'd be me.[/hand raised]

Introverted social-phobic, me. Make a virtue of the factual neccessity of isolationism as a matter of personal survival, in direct conflict with above-mentioned hardwiring. Self-time is more precious than oxygen in my gray little universe. No good at contributing to continued survival/superiority of the species.


Sorry. Personal issue. Do what I gotta do. :(

But I DO NOT disagree. Just don't fit.


Bog: Long-time-no-hear-from. Good to see you still kicking and screaming, and truly a most excellent post. I really like a good dose of savage cynicism that I can appreciate. Priceless. My thanks.

FYI, The open-ended invite to this miserable-to-live-in-but-lovely-to-visit Leftist enclave in pursuit of employment opportunities is still hot. It's admittedly lousy here, but better than where yer at. :cool: ;)
 
Hand_Rifle_Guy

You may think you are anti-social, but guess again. Unless you actually live in a cave in the wilds with nothing but stone age implements, you are part of society. The fact that you are on the internet makes you part of the team.

If you work, live in a man made structure, drive a car, take a bus, ride a bicycle, walk on sidewalks, wear man made clothes eat food from a store or in a restaraunt, spend money, sleep in a bed, use electricity, pay taxes, obey the laws, talk on telephones, pay rent/mortgage, you are one of us.

You may think you are anti-social, but you are very social. If you live anything like the para above, then you are part of the big machine that makes us not the same as the animals.
 
Granted, Butch. I will definitely agree that I'm a part of society.

But "very" social? Compared to what? This place is one of the most fundamental social interactions I participate in, and it can only be described as third-hand, at best. My post count's pretty low too, compared to some folks who've been registered for much less time than I.

Face-time is the bain of my existence, and I actively avoid it. I try to know as few people as conveniently possible. I don't work at maintaining connections. I despise the telephone, and almost never call people, even friends or family. I rarely initiate conversations. I avoid deliberately social occasions and interactions like the plague. I've no family of my own, and no prospects despite desires to the contrary.

"Very" social? Not in human terms. Not by a long shot.

I don't deny I'm an active participant, but from a "promote/preserve the species" point of view, I'm not particularly good at the role of "social creature." Given a choice, I'd rather be by myself.

It even looks a bit odd to ME, and I'm the one doing it, hence the 'aberrant' claim. And it's no way to pass on genes, that being the penultimate purpose of existence, more or less.

Mind you, contravening the hardwiring is no picnic, hence the :(. I hate my sex drive, mostly. Now THAT is strange.

One odd duck, me. Jus' gettin' by. ;)

Uh, oops. Pardon my thread veer. I'm done.
 
Thats kind of like saying we can't eradicate disease, so lets not try
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There is a wrong way to go about fixing a problem. When the attempted cure for a disease is more harmful than the disease itself, I'll take my chances with the disease, thank you.

The crime problem wouldn't be a tenth as bad as it is at the moment, in the U.S. or Britain, if the government didn't artificially tilt the playing field in favor of criminals. Gun control laws only serve to make sure the criminals have easy pickings among unarmed victims.
 
I guess that you and I are using the term social differently. To me it sounds like what you are saying is that you are not gregarious, as opposed to social. From your description I would agree that you are not gregarious, but since you are not out committing crimes against society, and are living well within the lines of a social being, then you are a social person.

If I met you on the street face to face you may avoid talking to me - which is non-gregarious, but you wouldn't shoot me in the back as I walked away which is anti-social :)

You are a part of the overall social matrix that makes us tick. Sounds like you need one of those radar monitoring jobs in Adak though ;)
 
The crime problem wouldn't be a tenth as bad as it is at the moment, in the U.S. or Britain, if the government didn't artificially tilt the playing field in favor of criminals.
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Or if victumless crimes wern't crimes.
 
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