uh, mistake? 9mm 124 4.3-4.4 Titegroup

How did it happen? It is my normal load for 115gn bullets and I got a box of 124's. I have the loading data for 124's but I brain farted. Not an newbie error...it is an "I've loaded 10,000s of rounds" loading moving too fast and got sloppy error.

As for OAL...these are loaded at 1.08. They are flat points that are .0715 shorter than the round nose I normally load to 1.15

Using my inertia puller. I got 120 done today....lots more to go.
 
Well here we are 22 posts into this and so far no one has even Welcomed you to the forum! Well, Welcome In!

An old saying from my grandmother; the hurrier'd I go the behinder I get! At least you realize where the problem originated and how to prevent it again. Getting into a race is not where you want to be when dealing with things that go boom.

Spent many years working with 480v electric and you would never see me get in a hurry or cut corners. Sometimes we need that slap in the face reminder!
 
Well here we are 22 posts into this and so far no one has even Welcomed you to the forum! Well, Welcome In!

An old saying from my grandmother; the hurrier'd I go the behinder I get! At least you realize where the problem originated and how to prevent it again. Getting into a race is not where you want to be when dealing with things that go boom.

Spent many years working with 480v electric and you would never see me get in a hurry or cut corners. Sometimes we need that slap in the face reminder!
Thank you for the welcome.

Yeah, I was trying to load a bunch in February due to some things I was working on......I see how it saved me a lot of time ;-)

I do all my pistol loading on a Dillon Square deal so I try to load up 500-1000 rounds of a given caliber so I will have plenty for matches and practice for a couple of months. Then I change out to a different caliber and load up those....I rotate between 45LC, 45ACP, 40SW, 9mm, 10mm...and on very rare occasions 32 SW in black powder. Been loading this way since 1997 and never had a problem like this before but there is alway a first.
 
I'm in the camp that says...pull the bullets.

I use a lot of Titegroup....but over Max ...is not where I want to be ... !.
 
Boxertwin, thank you for the measurements.

My first QuickLOAD calculations were probably off, so I deleted my post. I might try some more calculations to see if they are any different than Unclenick's.

Hope my post didn't confuse anyone.
 
Last edited:
I tried the QuickLOAD pressure estimate again, and I think/hope I did it right this time. I really shouldn’t be doing math or thinking of any kind after bed time. Feel free to check the math, logic, etc.

I’m not sure the precise method Unclenick used for his QuickLOAD calculations. My method is explained below.

QuickLOAD requires knowing the bullet length in order to calculate case volume. I did the pressure estimate with the known length of a flat base 124 grain round nose plated bullet to get QuickLOAD’s estimated pressure, then did another calculation with the shorter flat point bullet at the shorter OAL and with more powder to see how much pressure changed. The estimated difference in pressure was then added to Hodgdon’s pressure for a new pressure estimate.

The OP’s 124 Extreme RN bullets are 0.593” long and my sample of these bullets are 0.586” long, so I used 0.590” for the calculations.

Hodgdon says 4.1 grains of Titegroup produced 32,700 psi with a 124 grain plated bullet seated to 1.150” OAL.

Steps in QuickLOAD for estimating pressure:

Step #1. A 124 grain plated bullet 0.590” long seated to 1.150” OAL with 4.1 grains of Titegroup produces 31,703 psi according to QuickLOAD.

Step #2. A 124 grain plated bullet 0.528” long seated to 1.080” OAL with 4.3 grains of Titegroup produces 36,287 psi according to QuickLOAD.

The estimate with the flat point bullet, at a shorter OAL and higher charge weight is higher by 4,584 psi. If we now add 4,584 to Hodgdon’s measured pressure of 32,700 psi, the new estimated pressure is 37,284 psi. That’s in between the standard 9mm pressure limit of 35,000 psi and the +P pressure limit of 38,500 psi. And it’s not too far from Unclenick’s estimate of 36,070 psi.

These are estimates!! The good thing about QuickLOAD is that it does take bullet length and OAL (seating depth) into account, and estimates pressure based on these parameters.

Are the estimates correct? Only actual pressure testing will determine that, but bullet length and seating depth matters.

Standard disclaimer: I cannot guarantee the accuracy of the estimate or the validity of QuickLOAD’s calculations. Use this information at your own risk.
 
Sorry but I believe you are leaving out the biggest factor here and that is the cavity in the base of the Berry's. It is significant and does have a large effect. In this case you cannot just use the length of the 2 different bullets. Even seated to the same depth because of the cavity the Berry's will have a lower pressure.

Just as a research forget the Quickload for a moment and go over to Western/Accurate and compare data for many of the Berry's Hollow Base bullets listed there against the same Flat base Berry's bullet of the same weight. Then come back to us with your thoughts!
 
You're right, the hollow base matters. I did take it into account. It affects the measured length of the bullet, and bullet length is required for QL to do its calculations.

The Berrys hollow base bullet is longer, at 0.613". If that length was used for the calculation it would be misleading, because part of that length is air space. I did not use that length. The trick is to figure out how much space is in the hollow base, and subtract it from the bullet length.

Keep in mind that the hollow base simply displaces the lead. Imagine that you push/swage the lead at the base until it fills in the hole. The bullet's length shortens when you do this, because the lead is no longer displaced, and you now have a flat base bullet. The length of Berrys flat base 124 grain round nose bullet is 0.587", very close to the 0.486" of my box of Xtreme 124 RN bullets, and very close to the 0.590" used for the calculations.

We have to assume that the nose shape of the two bullets is roughly the same. It is to my eye, and the Berrys' bullets look very much like the Xtreme bullets, too, so the 0.590" is a pretty good approximation to use for the calculations.

Charge weights, pressure and velocity should be theoretically the same for hollow base and flat base bullets of the same weight, type and shape, i.e. both 124 grain, both plated and both round nose with a similar shape, if seated to the same OAL.

The Western data for Berrys 124 grain hollow base flat nose bullets and Berrys flat base round nose bullets in the 9mm are consistent with what is know about bullet length, OAL and seating depth. Note that the Berry 124 RN bullet is seated at 1.160" OAL, longer than used for my calculations, which will reduce pressure. The Berry 124 HBFN bullet is seated to 1.060" OAL, shorter than used for my calculations, which will increase pressure.

Western’s data shows a difference of 29 psi between those bullets when loaded with the maximum loads of True Blue. The pressure for the RN bullet is a little higher.

If I plug the Western data for 9mm Luger and True Blue into QuickLOAD, I get the following numbers:

124 FP (0.528”) at 1.060” OAL and 5.5 grains of True Blue = 27,329 psi

124 RN (0.590”) at 1.160” OAL and 6.0 grains of True Blue = 28,080 psi

The difference between these values is 751 psi, the pressure for the RN bullet is higher.

QuickLOAD’s estimates are not wildly different, since one can get a 751 psi difference by changing the powder weight by 0.1 grains of powder or less. e.g. adding 0.1 grains of True Blue to the 124 grain RN load (now 6.1 grains), increases QL’s pressure estimate to 29,287 psi, a gain of 1207 psi.

I found that the pressure for the flat nose bullet loaded with more Titegroup was higher by 4,584 psi. Keep in mind that our OALs were not as extreme as those in Western’s data, so I don’t think QL’s estimates are unreasonable.

Standard disclaimer: I cannot guarantee the accuracy of the estimate or the validity of QuickLOAD’s calculations. Use this information at your own risk.
 
Doesnt sound like a crazy high loading. If it were me I'd just run them through my 9mm AR "pistol". The chamber walls on that thing are THICK. And yes I know steel type, tempering etc is very important, more steel is more steel.
 
Per Uncle Nick's calculations you have some stout +p ammo. If you had a standard Beretta 92fs I would not shoot to check with a chrono. Since you have the stainless Inox Beretta 92fs I would check out what they chrono. I would also shoot them outdoors in cooler weather as well.

If you decide to shoot them I would recommend replacing the locking block as they are the 92sf's weak link.
 
kmw1954 said:
Well here we are 22 posts into this and so far no one has even Welcomed you to the forum!]

See post #10, right after the warning. But your additional welcome is a welcome addition.;)
 
Back
Top