uh, mistake? 9mm 124 4.3-4.4 Titegroup

B

Boxertwin

Inactive
I took a batch of ammo down to the range to do some practice and noticed things were a lot hotter than normal.

I pulled some ammo and found that instead of loading to 3.8, I loaded to 4.3.
The Hodgdon manual shows 4.1 as a max

I'm shooting with an Inox Beretta 92fs.

My options seem to be:
1. shoot them all.
2. pull them all and load them properly.

Anyone have an opinion on that high of a powder load. Using Extreme 124 flat points. I forget the OAL but I think it is around 1.125
 
The only real 'option', is #2...

The real issue is how in heck you loaded half a grain over to begin with...

Worry about that...
 
So does anyone have a good method for pulling 600 rounds?
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Not one you would like. Just chalk it up to the price we pay for being so careless. Titegroup is not the powder to make mistakes with.
 
CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond or not
covered by currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.


Welcome to the forum.

I'll put up a dissenting opinion for you to consider in this particular case. If I tweak QuickLOAD to match the performance reported by Hodgdon and then set the load to 4.3 grains, it shows the average pressure would rise to 36,070 psi, which is a little over the 35,000 psi average allowed by the SAAMI Maximum Average Pressure (MAP) for newly loaded cartridges at standard pressure. It is, however, below the SAAMI allowance for aged cartridges of 37,800 psi and below the 9mm +P rating of 38,500 psi. For that reason, I think it will be safe to fire if your gun is in good condition and is not old enough to be in danger of the slide cracking some 92FS's experienced when the U.S. military adopted them. You should call Beretta with the serial number to find out if that is a risk with +P ammunition in your gun. But since the likely pressures are all well below the proof load pressures for the cartridge, which currently start at 52,000 psi (SAAMI now used the same proof pressures for 9 mm Luger and the +P version) added wear rather than direct damage is the only issue you should experience.

If you have a chronograph and the velocity does not exceed 1130 fps at 15 feet from the muzzle, then the pressure estimate I produced is not likely being exceeded. The only exception would be if your chronograph is not accurate.

If you want to pull down a number of rounds that large, I recommend investing in the Hornady Cam Lock™ puller and their #9 collet (part #392162). Once you get it in a sturdy press and adjust the collet so the handle just grips the bullets firmly enough to pull when it is at 90°, it is the quickest tool. I've done 1000 surplus .308 rounds in two sittings with mine.
 
"...good method for pulling 600 rounds..." Patience and using a rock vs anything else to bash the inertia puller on. Doable while sitting in front of the TV. Probably best to be alone though.
Used a hunk of some kind of igneous rock with one flattish side the size of a human brain for eons. Cost nothing too. A rock is way faster than concrete. More solid.
.2 over is unlikely to cause any damage(SAAMI max pressure is 35,000 Max Average Pressure), but you must CYA. A different manual that tested with a different powder lot may or may not test at a 4.1 Max. However, that does not endorse over max loads.
 
For bulk bullet pulling, I prefer the Hornady Cam-Loc puller.
However, I use it differently than Unclenick suggests. I adjust mine so that I must constantly apply pressure to the handle, with it at about a 45 degree angle; and the handle can not cam over and lock (without breaking, anyway). It gives me a better feel for what's going on, and I can process the cartridges faster.

The RCBS puller, in my opinion, grips certain types of bullets a bit better, but the tool is slower to use and there's no "feel" whatsoever.


As far as what direction to go...
I believe Unclenick's advice to be sane and reasonable, IF you can verify that velocity is where it should be.
If you cannot verify velocity, just pull it all.

And...
I have an uncle, who has been brought up dozens of times on this forum now, that likes jumping to max loads and loading 300, 500, 800, or even 1,000+ rounds of something completely untested.
He'll get to the range, fire a couple rounds, note that they're WAY too hot ... and keep on shooting, because he doesn't want to be bothered to pull the bullets.
He does the same with squibs and double-charges. Even if he notices them, he keeps on going under the pretense of, "I'll just listen more carefully."

The carnage left in the wake of his ignorance is now well over 20 handguns and a few rifles, including several .357s that had their barrels blown off, at least three Colt Mustang variants with cracked slides and/or frames (Pocketlite, Mustang, and Mustang +II), three or four 1911s, two Glocks, and, I believe, now FOUR Beretta 92s.

Don't be like my uncle. Don't shoot bad ammo purely out of laziness.


You have a head start, though. You know you screwed up. You just need to figure out why.
 
"There's only one way to eat an elephant, that's one bite at a time". I haven't had to pull 600 cartridges apart, but when overwhelmed by a daunting task, I just do as much as I'm comfortable doing at one time. Spread out the pain over several sessions. I have pulled a bunch of bullets with an impact/inertia puller though. I use a lead puck (an ingot from a muffin pan) for an anvil when using a hammer puller. It is much quieter, easier on the hands and does not soften the blow enough to slow the bullet's inertia. Works for me...
 
I'm rather with Unclenick on this one. I don't believe you are in a dangerous situation. But putting 600 of those hot boys through your gun could be a bit rough on it.

To pull, or not to pull. That is the question. I believe the viewpoints have been basically covered. You will decide what you want to do.

find out why they are overcharged.
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. . . ^^ THIS ^^ is my primary concern. How did this happen? And more importantly, how are you going to correct your processes? In 33 years, I don't recall ever mischarging a round of ammunition - at least, that I know of. It's definitely time to review your loading practices to determine the critical control point of error.
 
I'm too going to side with Unclenick only because I am familiar with the data on Western Powder/Accurate to know that there at least they also have a whole section on the +P charges after the normal charge data.

Now I also have not used TiteGroup to this point so I have no true experience with it. All I can go by are the reports folks on these forums supply. At the same time I have not used it because the data I do find shows it to be pretty unforgiving in the pressure curve. Not a lot of room between start and max. Because I load on a progressive with a volumetric powder measure I'm just not comfortable that a .2gr variance could easily put a load over max.

At the same time I also believe that any modern handgun in reasonably good condition should be able to safely handle +P loads. I will leave the reasonably good condition definition up to you.
 
I too, agree with Uncle Nick.

Your not that much over and the gun is rated for +p. Your load will be almost an exact match to the 124 "NATO" ammo that is sold by several manufacturers.

But do find out why your charge was off so much.

I have an RCBS powder drop that I added the Micrometer adjuster too that worked great for a few years and then suddenly the Micrometer started "walking" as I was dispensing charges only in my case it made the charges progressively smaller.

Shoot safe.
 
Well, for a new reloader, I still suggest pulling. If for no other reason it would teach the new guy (from the question I gather the OP is not a seasoned reloader) to be more careful with powder charges. I would highly recommend the OP stick with what's in the book only rather than speculate on chamber pressures.

I also have a rule for myself and I advise new reloaders as such; pay no attention to a forum expert, range rat, gun counter clerk, pet loads website, reloading friend or gun shop guru as far as load data is concerned. There are many published manuals to go by and in 30 years of reloading I still find plenty of variety and new loads. I also get a small amount of data from powder manufacturer websites, but those are the only two sources of load data I use. When I get a friendly suggestion of 18.6 grains of Unique for my 32 Special reloads, I just smile, say thank you and immediately forget the "help"...
 
Don P,

It looks like you got that 1.06" from some other post. The OP said: "I forget the OAL but I think it is around 1.125." It is short though. Hodgdon has that bullet at 1.150", so that could be part of the pressure too. A velocity reading would tell.
 
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