Uberti Cattleman Hombre?

NY requires the dealers to collect sales tax on transfers. So by the time I pay shipping, the transfer fee and the sales tax, that $250 revolver is in the $330 range.

I don't need one. But I'd like to have one. Cash has been tight recently, so I guess I can resist.
 
Is that sales tax in NY on the transfer fee or the gun price?
If on the gun price, well that is just unfair and wrong, as you don't pay the NY dealer for the gun, only the transfer! :confused:
 
Almost all states want people to pay a "use tax" on out of state purchases for anything brought into the state. A lot of state income tax returns have a line for this.

In reality, hardly anyone pays those taxes and it is too much of a bother for the states to go after individuals for the tax. But when an item passes through a retailer's hands, and most FFLs are retailers to some degree, the state demands that the tax be collected and if you don't pay it, they may make the FFL pay it.
 
With that extra long barrel, your black powder loads are going to get the cleanest and utmost burn when traveling through that thing.

As fellow member Darkerx mentioned in another thread, he got over 700 foot pounds of energy with his 1858 Cattleman shooting a standard cap and ball charge.

Powder types are different, and some, like my homemade "Coconut Powder" is pretty potent, so is Pyrodex P without bad-hair day. http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=450111&highlight=homemade

In all conditions, if you are using .45 LC black powder handloads which already shoots at the 900-1000 FPS range in a standard 5 inch or 8 inch barreled handgun, you are going to get velocities up to 1300-1500 or even higher in that carbine, both the SAA and Cattleman.

So in the end, you have an accurate and extremely light and manueverable weapon which delivers a payload that is about as powerful as a service 5.56x45 NATO/.223 Rem. cartridge. And the soft lead round nose or flatpoints you are shooting definitely packs more in the stopping power department.
 
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Is that sales tax in NY on the transfer fee or the gun price?
If on the gun price, well that is just unfair and wrong, as you don't pay the NY dealer for the gun, only the transfer!
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It depends upon who you're paying for the gun. If you send a check off to the seller of the gun, then pay the dealer his transfer fee, then the transfer fee should be what gets taxed. If the transferring dealer pays the seller for the gun, then you pay the dealer, the whole smack gets taxed.

At least that's how it works in my neck of the woods, a couple of thousand miles from New York. Of course, New York has taken quite a leadership role in the collection of sales tax on out of state sales, so I suppose that it's quite possible that they've come up with some novel rule that puts a fly in the ointment.
 
The way you explained it is what I thought it should be, but I had an FFL in Florida try to charge me sales tax on the entire purchase price of a custom rifle that I had paid the gunsmith in New Hampshire for before he shipped it. I walked out of that place pretty quick and found another FFL who did the transfer for a flat fee of $40.
 
The way you explained it is what I thought it should be, but I had an FFL in Florida try to charge me sales tax on the entire purchase price of a custom rifle that I had paid the gunsmith in New Hampshire for before he shipped it. I walked out of that place pretty quick and found another FFL who did the transfer for a flat fee of $40.
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How would one know that the guy doesn't just pocket the "tax" money, like I'm sure many in-state eBay sellers do when they charge "tax"? Would there be a way to put the seller on the hot seat by saying something about declaring that amount on your tax return as a "paid tax"? Could you request his taxpayer ID or business license number for "recordkeeping purposes"? There must be a way to ferret out those who may be taking advantage of the situation.
 
The way you explained it is what I thought it should be, but I had an FFL in Florida try to charge me sales tax on the entire purchase price of a custom rifle that I had paid the gunsmith in New Hampshire for before he shipped it. I walked out of that place pretty quick and found another FFL who did the transfer for a flat fee of $40.
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How would one know that the guy doesn't just pocket the "tax" money, like I'm sure many in-state eBay sellers do when they charge "tax"? Would there be a way to put the seller on the hot seat by saying something about declaring that amount on your tax return as a "paid tax"? Could you request his taxpayer ID or business license number for "recordkeeping purposes"? There must be a way to ferret out those who may be taking advantage of the situation.
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I don't know if that's an issue for me, because my local FFL runs a gun shop. I presume that he is remitting the collected taxes to the state, just as I assume that every other retail business does. Now I know full well that there are ones that don't, but for the most part, if they don't, that's their problem as the state will go after them, not the individual customers (many of whom paid in cash).
 
But what gives any state the right to collect a sales tax on an item if the sale did not take place in said state? I can rationalize sales tax on the transfer fee, but that should be it. It's robbery! :mad:
 
zullo74 said:
But what gives any state the right to collect a sales tax on an item if the sale did not take place in said state? I can rationalize sales tax on the transfer fee, but that should be it. It's robbery!
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The US Supreme Court upheld the state sales & use tax on goods that are brought into a state for use in that state. That's why it's a "sales & use tax" and not just a simple sales tax.
Virtually no states charge the use tax on items that are being shipped out of state under the assumption that it's not going to be used in their state.
If someone had paid an out of state sales tax on an item, then they would receive a deduction or "offset" for that amount toward their own state's sales and use tax when they bring it into their state.
For example, if the out of state sales tax paid was 5%, and the person's home state charged 7%, then the person would owe the 2% difference to their home state. This is what can happen when a person buys a car in another state and then goes to register it in their home state. They can't simply expect to avoid paying their state's sales & use tax on it or everyone would buy cars out of state.
However, if a person buys through the mail and doesn't pay any out of state sales tax then they owe 100% of the item's sales and use tax rate to their home state where the item will be used.
That's part of having a state government that was created with the consent of its people and which is administered by regularly elected officials. And each state needs a way to survive.
Prior to that there was a King and his appointed colonial governors that had relatively absolute power over their subjects.
What makes this country so great is that every citizen is free to run for elected office, or to vote with their feet and move elsewhere which is the exact reason why most Americans came here to begin with. After all, the US is the best country in the world. :)
 
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I don't know if that's an issue for me, because my local FFL runs a gun shop. I presume that he is remitting the collected taxes to the state, just as I assume that every other retail business does. Now I know full well that there are ones that don't, but for the most part, if they don't, that's their problem as the state will go after them, not the individual customers (many of whom paid in cash).
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You completely missed my point. I'm saying, would you balk if your retailer said, "I know the seller of this privately owned firearm is charging you $300 for the gun, but in addition to charging you my regular transfer fee I'm going to charge you an additional 8% to keep as profit for myself unbeknownst to you, and tell you I will pay it to the state as tax even though there is no such requirement and the state will not actually see a cent of it while I use it on vacation this weekend. (Why, thankyou, Sucker!)"?

My question is how could one find out if he's being taken advantage of in such a way?
 
If someone had paid an out of state sales tax on an item, then they would receive a deduction or "offset" for that amount toward their own state's sales and use tax when they bring it into or have it mailed into their state.
For example, if the out of state sales tax paid was 5%, and the person's home state charged 7%, then the person would owe the 2% difference to their home state.
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...and say the out of state sales tax paid was 7%, and the person's home state charged 5%, then the person's home state would pay him the 2% he overpaid. Bwah, hah, hah, hah, hah!!! Right.(rolleyes) Dirtbags:mad:
 
I don't know if that's an issue for me, because my local FFL runs a gun shop. I presume that he is remitting the collected taxes to the state, just as I assume that every other retail business does. Now I know full well that there are ones that don't, but for the most part, if they don't, that's their problem as the state will go after them, not the individual customers (many of whom paid in cash).
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You completely missed my point. I'm saying, would you balk if your retailer said, "I know the seller of this privately owned firearm is charging you $300 for the gun, but in addition to charging you my regular transfer fee I'm going to charge you an additional 8% to keep as profit for myself unbeknownst to you, and tell you I will pay it to the state as tax even though there is no such requirement and the state will not actually see a cent of it while I use it on vacation this weekend. (Why, thankyou, Sucker!)"?

My question is how could one find out if he's being taken advantage of in such a way?
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If the dealer is required to collect sales tax, collects the sales tax and then keeps it for himself, the fraud isn't against the guy who took possession of the gun. The fraud is against the state.
 
If the dealer is required to collect sales tax, collects the sales tax and then keeps it for himself, the fraud isn't against the guy who took possession of the gun. The fraud is against the state.
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But that's NOT what I said. What I am saying is....
"If the dealer is NOT required to collect sales tax, collects the "sales tax" and then keeps it for himself, the fraud IS against the guy who took possession of the gun."

Is that clearer?

Apparently no one knows how to double check for such a fraud.
 
If the dealer is required to collect sales tax, collects the sales tax and then keeps it for himself, the fraud isn't against the guy who took possession of the gun. The fraud is against the state.
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But that's NOT what I said. What I am saying is....
"If the dealer is NOT required to collect sales tax, collects the "sales tax" and then keeps it for himself, the fraud IS against the guy who took possession of the gun."

Is that clearer?

Apparently no one knows how to double check for such a fraud.
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Ask your state department of taxation if a retail dealer is required to collect sales tax on a private-party sale that is handled through a FFL dealer.
 
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