long rider
New member
Maybe You Should Invest In A Pair Of Glasessssssss.
Uberti cartridge cylinder soft as mush
- Thread starter CaptainCrossman
- Start date
Fingers McGee
New member
Quote FrontierGander
Thank you for refraining from purchasing C&B revolvers. It leaves more for those of us that appreciate them.
Thank you for refraining from purchasing C&B revolvers. It leaves more for those of us that appreciate them.
FrontierGander
New member
oh no i actually loved the 6 shooter!! i've just been cautious ever since. I'd love to get another one some day but i'll do a lot of research next time.
Right now i could use a .54 or .58 cal single shot to keep my rifle company.
Right now i could use a .54 or .58 cal single shot to keep my rifle company.
I went to the gun shop last week and they got in about 1/2 dozen USFA Single Action Revolvers. They were all priced in the mid $700's and they had a beautiful finish. (pictures at the bottom of the page):
http://www.usfirearms.com/cat/single-action-revolver.asp
Then I noticed that one of the SA's was just under $500. It was a USFA Rodeo. The matte black finsh didn't look too bad in the dealer's case. It also comes in nickel as the Rodeo II, and since it's a USFA the action should be worth it:
http://www.usfirearms.com/cat/rodeogun.asp
http://www.usfirearms.com/cat/single-action-revolver.asp
Then I noticed that one of the SA's was just under $500. It was a USFA Rodeo. The matte black finsh didn't look too bad in the dealer's case. It also comes in nickel as the Rodeo II, and since it's a USFA the action should be worth it:
http://www.usfirearms.com/cat/rodeogun.asp
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Arcticap,
Careful. The Cap'n has warned you that all them nickle guns are colored brass.
I don't understand a thing that the Gander says.
"My very first pistol kept blowing the wedge pin out after each shot."
"hammer stripped out and then finally the pin that holds the cylinder shaft blew off."
I don't know what a "wedge pin" is that blew out. I don't know how a hammer "strips". They rotate on a round shaft. I don't know how a pin that I don't know where it is that holds the cylinder shaft can blow off.
Because a steel is "free machining" does not mean that it is soft. Some steels turn nicely, but high tensile, some others are a bitch to cut, though they may be considered "scrap steel".
Then, too, the grind of the tool or the carbide insert you use will take an intermittent cut without telling you you got problems.
You could, of course go to Maraging Steel. Recent price is 178 bucks for 6 inch length of 1.75 D. 30 bucks per lineal inch, 1.75 D.
Overkill I THINK, for BP, unless you think that only them with a few spare bucks, you, maybe, should BE allowed to shoot even BP.
As to the "machinist, I were one, many years ago. I made MANY interrupted cuts, motor rotor spiders, 6 or 8 arm, and spun them at about 180 RPMs and got the finish they asked for, 12 to 36 inch diameter. Kids today in machine shops have no idea how to run machines, for the most part.
Computer tells them what they can or cannot do.
Machinists are cutting Inconel and solid nickle with no problem. A guy tells you this is really mushy steel and you come tell us that import cylinders are melted down tincans.
Steel can be very tough though relatively soft. HARD steel has a habit of fracturing upon impact, and powder bursting in a cavity can be considered an impact.
As some of the others, I wonder why you post here. You evidently HATE BP guns, your latest is an Open Top, a top strapless Colt, and we know you don't like unstrapped revolvers.
I would like to see you take a Smith 29 cylinder to that same machinist and have him take a cut off it. I would wager you would hear him say "Man, this is some soft steel."
You don't make tough steel 60 Rockwell. That is hard steel. Brittle. Breaks. Tough steel is in the 45 neighborhood, strong and ductile. A good knife is about 52, 54 Rockwell.
You are trying to scare people and I don't know why. Whom do you represent? You can't be simply a free range *******.
Cheers,
George
Careful. The Cap'n has warned you that all them nickle guns are colored brass.
I don't understand a thing that the Gander says.
"My very first pistol kept blowing the wedge pin out after each shot."
"hammer stripped out and then finally the pin that holds the cylinder shaft blew off."
I don't know what a "wedge pin" is that blew out. I don't know how a hammer "strips". They rotate on a round shaft. I don't know how a pin that I don't know where it is that holds the cylinder shaft can blow off.
Because a steel is "free machining" does not mean that it is soft. Some steels turn nicely, but high tensile, some others are a bitch to cut, though they may be considered "scrap steel".
Then, too, the grind of the tool or the carbide insert you use will take an intermittent cut without telling you you got problems.
You could, of course go to Maraging Steel. Recent price is 178 bucks for 6 inch length of 1.75 D. 30 bucks per lineal inch, 1.75 D.
Overkill I THINK, for BP, unless you think that only them with a few spare bucks, you, maybe, should BE allowed to shoot even BP.
As to the "machinist, I were one, many years ago. I made MANY interrupted cuts, motor rotor spiders, 6 or 8 arm, and spun them at about 180 RPMs and got the finish they asked for, 12 to 36 inch diameter. Kids today in machine shops have no idea how to run machines, for the most part.
Computer tells them what they can or cannot do.
Machinists are cutting Inconel and solid nickle with no problem. A guy tells you this is really mushy steel and you come tell us that import cylinders are melted down tincans.
Steel can be very tough though relatively soft. HARD steel has a habit of fracturing upon impact, and powder bursting in a cavity can be considered an impact.
As some of the others, I wonder why you post here. You evidently HATE BP guns, your latest is an Open Top, a top strapless Colt, and we know you don't like unstrapped revolvers.
I would like to see you take a Smith 29 cylinder to that same machinist and have him take a cut off it. I would wager you would hear him say "Man, this is some soft steel."
You don't make tough steel 60 Rockwell. That is hard steel. Brittle. Breaks. Tough steel is in the 45 neighborhood, strong and ductile. A good knife is about 52, 54 Rockwell.
You are trying to scare people and I don't know why. Whom do you represent? You can't be simply a free range *******.
Cheers,
George
Indian Outlaw
New member
I started thinking that very thing a couple of days ago. That is, that he is a purveyor of flame bait.
olmontanaboy
New member
LOL, What's she worried about, she consulted an expert metallurgist who told her that these imports wont shoot more than a few rounds and then melt in our hands anyway
madcratebuilder
New member
Thank God there is a voice of sanity in the wilderness.
I was questioning the stripped hammer (htf do you do that?), wedge pin???? and cylinder shaft????
I go away for a day and the Capt strikes again. This guy has to be a troll. Everything he posts is pure BS, and now he has a partner!
The OP complained about 3 different things:
1. He complained about an Uberti .38 special centerfire cylinder that a 3rd party perceived as being mushy and not heat treated.
Now we all know that a centerfire cylinder is not the same as a C&B cylinder, but because Uberti also makes C&B cylinders, he then 2)., links the mushiness to those cylinders too.
Then 3), he goes on to say that Italian repro. C&B's are overpriced and not a good value.
I think that we all understand that a .357 magnum cylinder just might be made with better steel than a C&B cylinder.
Sure he's comparing apples to oranges, but he's only trying to say "why buy a C&B conversion cylinder when you get a much stronger overall gun designed to shoot centerfire cartridges for almost the same price."
Sure it's all based on opinion and grey matter, but because the complaints are not just strictly about apples or oranges then the 2 separate cylinder issues become misconstrued.
He's seems to be more upset about the quality vs. cost of Italian repro. guns for cartridge shooting purposes.
He's not slamming C&B's as much as he is their new higher prices since he said that he'll stick with Italian SS.
His opinion is partly understandable.
BP cartridge shooting vs. strictly cap & ball vs. overall value for the money.
These are all valid considerations when buying a cowboy action gun.
So C&B shooters shouldn't take offense when the subject is mostly about shooting centerfire and the quality vs. cost of doing it with an Italian gun, repro. or otherwise.
It's a typical pro-American rant.
1. He complained about an Uberti .38 special centerfire cylinder that a 3rd party perceived as being mushy and not heat treated.
Now we all know that a centerfire cylinder is not the same as a C&B cylinder, but because Uberti also makes C&B cylinders, he then 2)., links the mushiness to those cylinders too.
Then 3), he goes on to say that Italian repro. C&B's are overpriced and not a good value.
I think that we all understand that a .357 magnum cylinder just might be made with better steel than a C&B cylinder.
Sure he's comparing apples to oranges, but he's only trying to say "why buy a C&B conversion cylinder when you get a much stronger overall gun designed to shoot centerfire cartridges for almost the same price."
Sure it's all based on opinion and grey matter, but because the complaints are not just strictly about apples or oranges then the 2 separate cylinder issues become misconstrued.
He's seems to be more upset about the quality vs. cost of Italian repro. guns for cartridge shooting purposes.
He's not slamming C&B's as much as he is their new higher prices since he said that he'll stick with Italian SS.
His opinion is partly understandable.
BP cartridge shooting vs. strictly cap & ball vs. overall value for the money.
These are all valid considerations when buying a cowboy action gun.
So C&B shooters shouldn't take offense when the subject is mostly about shooting centerfire and the quality vs. cost of doing it with an Italian gun, repro. or otherwise.
It's a typical pro-American rant.
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"why buy a C&B conversion cylinder when you get a much stronger overall gun designed to shoot centerfire cartridges for almost same price."
Isn't the answer obvious? The answer is, simply, that I might want an authentic looking cartridge conversion and no U.S. maker currently offers one. Substituting a Ruger Vaquero, or whatever, is not going to satisfy the cartridge conversion desire, especially if I already own six Ruger Vaqueros.
Isn't the answer obvious? The answer is, simply, that I might want an authentic looking cartridge conversion and no U.S. maker currently offers one. Substituting a Ruger Vaquero, or whatever, is not going to satisfy the cartridge conversion desire, especially if I already own six Ruger Vaqueros.
madcratebuilder
New member
Your damn right!
grymster2007
New member
Broadly speaking: alloy steel, heat treated to 25 - 30 Rc (I think a reasonable range for a revolver cylinder) will machine quite easily. We mill and turn tool steels hardened to 60 - 63 Rc.
Did you test the hardness? Or are you basing your broad finding that Italian guns are crap on one highly subjective instance?
Did you test the hardness? Or are you basing your broad finding that Italian guns are crap on one highly subjective instance?
FrontierGander
New member
wow you guys are amazing!! the pistols were the cabelas 1851 confederate navy .44's. Brass frame revolver.
wedge pin = a metal wedge that holds the barrel onto the frame of the pistol. I know you cant be that dumb and not know what a wedge pin is.
hammer did strip out, in fact i may still have the original. The hammer has a couple notches in it, kind of like a tumbler on a sidelock. These stripped/broke off clean. Cabelas sent me an replacement hammer free of charge.
They also sent me a wedge pin replacement but did no good. Fire one shot and i would have to search around because it never would stop coming out when fired.
i guess i'll have to find a blue print and label everything that went wrong with the revolver.
wedge pin = a metal wedge that holds the barrel onto the frame of the pistol. I know you cant be that dumb and not know what a wedge pin is.
hammer did strip out, in fact i may still have the original. The hammer has a couple notches in it, kind of like a tumbler on a sidelock. These stripped/broke off clean. Cabelas sent me an replacement hammer free of charge.
They also sent me a wedge pin replacement but did no good. Fire one shot and i would have to search around because it never would stop coming out when fired.
i guess i'll have to find a blue print and label everything that went wrong with the revolver.
FrontierGander
New member
wow i did ya one better. i had the hammer, trigger and wedge pin. Take notice to the wear on the trigger and the notches in the hammer, they are cut sideways from wear. :barf:
Due to this wear the hammer would not hold half cock or full cock.
Parts list from top to bottom:
WEDGE PIN
TRIGGER
HAMMER
Trigger wear,
Due to this wear the hammer would not hold half cock or full cock.
Parts list from top to bottom:
WEDGE PIN
TRIGGER
HAMMER
Trigger wear,
But some like CaptainCrossman are shooting conversions and reproductions for different reasons and have different expectations.
Some folks simply like the fact that they don't require a license, pistol permit or the red tape and can be bought by mail order.
Others shoot them because they're perceived as being inexpensive alternatives.
And some don't know why they want to shoot them at all.
Rightly or wrongly CaptainCrossman is voicing his opinion about some of the quality differences.
Not everyone realize the differences, hence there's often questions about the use of factory ammo.
Here's a thread discussing the Taylor/Uberti Conversion 1858's where it's stated that their .45 LC cylinder is harder than the C&B cylinder, yet still isn't as hard as the Kirst's 4140 steel.
And because the Uberti conversion frame is designed to handle the larger oversized .45LC cylinder, the Uberti C&B cylinder won't even fit into the frame to allow for a conventional conversion.
Someone bought one only to sell it because it couldn't be converted back and forth. Taylor's didn't make that clear enough.
These aren't important distinctions for everyone, but for some folks they are.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=438508&highlight=taylor+conversion
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