Uberti 1851 Colt Navy Conversion....Parts Needed?

H

Head Tomcat

New member
Guys,

First post here and am looking for some information regarding the conversion of a Uberti 1851 Colt Navy from percussion to center-fire cartridge.

I have been shooting C&B revolvers for a bit over two years now and really enjoy it. So far I have a Uberti 1861 Navy and Uberti 1858 Remington from Taylors...with Long Hunter tuning the Navy for me. From that I saw what a correctly tuned pistol should look and "feel" like and then tuned the Remington myself. Both of them are a true joy to use and certainly attract notice when used at the local range!

For the 1851 Navy conversion project, I have the tools and knowledge to properly install the conversion cylinder myself...so, no real concern there.

What I am looking for is advice on what to use for an ejector assembly?

I emailed Howell about their gated conversion cylinder and really like how it looks and works. The concern I have is how to eject the empty brass. Howell said to use a wood dowel or similar item (that will clearly work) but this seems a bit "crude" to me. Could a Kirst ejector assembly I see advertised by Buffalo Arm Co work? Or order from Taylors an Uberti ejector assembly as used in their factory 1851 conversion?

This could all be solved by simply buying a 1851 Navy already converted by the factory...but heck - that takes all the fun out of working on these pistols!

Any thoughts on a good way to go that gets a proper ejector assembly into an 1851 Navy?

Thanks!

Head Tomcat
 
Thanks...Great Information!

Guys,

The link to the Kirst ejector assembly was just what I was looking for...also, I read the rest of the website and their gated conversion cylinder looks darn good. I thought Kirst only made conversion cylinders which had a firing pin on each chamber and that was not what I am wanting...so, time to expand my pool of candidates!

So far as lining the barrel, I generally understand the pro's and con's of each way to go and my goal is to reload my own black powder cartridges. Seems lining the barrel will give a much greater range of lead to choose from as its smaller caliber puts it in line with 38 Special bullets. There is much less of a selection with heeled bullets which would be used in the unlined barrel.

Is there some consensus on which way is "best"? My use will be plinking and just having fun at the local range...no competitions or serious target shooting.

Again, thanks so much for your ideas...it is helping!

The Head Tomcat
 
Lining the barrel would be best. You will have to have a special crimp die to load heeled bullets. The only other option is using hollow based wadcutters.
 
Sounds Reasonable

I think that will likely be the way to go for me. The number of bullets to choose from would be a lot greater and would make for easier reloading, too.

Many thanks!

Head Tomcat
 
when you reline a revolver barrel you cant reline it like a rifle. first shot will push the liner out. you have to have a rim go up against the forcing cone to not let it do that. so you have to trim some off of the forcing cone to accomadate this rim. dont forget to cut a new forcing cone. i just done one and it shoots really tight groups at 20 yards.
 
when you reline a revolver barrel you cant reline it like a rifle. first shot will push the liner out. you have to have a rim go up against the forcing cone to not let it do that. so you have to trim some off of the forcing cone to accomadate this rim. dont forget to cut a new forcing cone. i just done one and it shoots really tight groups at 20 yards.
Click to expand...

You could leave a step just forward of the forcing cone and do away with all that extra work.
 
Hmmm...Trying to Visualize This

Guys,

I am so glad you mentioned that revolvers are different from rifles when relining them! I am familiar with relining .22RF rifles but a pistol will be a new one for me.

Could you provide a bit more detail on how a 1851 Navy could be relined most effectively?

Thanks!

Head Tomcat (who very interested in doing this correctly)
 
150 dollars is a good price, i payed 120 for my relining but my close machinest friend did it for me. my relined revolver shoots as good as a target revolver. very very tight groups at 15 to 20 yards.
 
I guess I need to update my website again.....lol
Reline’s are now $210 due to constant increases in appropriate lining material and tool wear due to ridiculous hard spots and poor heat treating of Italian manufacturers.
By the way a “rim” or step at the breech end is unnecessary if properly done.
 
Tomcat, I've been around this project from all different sides. The best choice for a Straight-Out conversion would be the .44 Army model because there's no conflict in bore dimensions. The options for the Navy conversion are expensive: 1) Buy a new barrel from Cimarron or 2) Have your barrel relined. Each cost about $140 to $150. Also be prepared to fork up $140 for the ejector rod assembly. The Kirst link has specifics about their kits, etc. This guy will do all the work for you: http://www.oldsouthfirearms.com. Buying a new off the rack open top navy in .38 spec. will run about 540.00 but you will be getting a Richards / Mason conversion. I am holding out for the Richards conversion which is the Kirst offering. Good luck, whichever way you go.
 
Tomcat

If you truly have the skill set and equipment to take this on my first suggestion would be to use the Pietta length cylinder and cut the breech end of the barrel the needed distance. This will afford you more choices in ammo.
You really have five choices in how to shoot this.
38 special cowboy ammo or 38 colt for poor accuracy
38 special hollow base wadcutters for decent accuracy
38 heel based in the factory bore
41 colt inside lubed in the stock bore with a rechambered cylinder
38 colt heeled in the stock bore

All of these have their pluses and minuses and I’d be happy to walk you through it. My contact info is in my signature
Regards, Gary
 
Thoughts on 1851 Navy Conversion

Guys,

Many apologies for being away for a few days...was on the road to visit my family back in Arkansas.

I picked up my Uberti Colt 1851 Navy London a few days ago from Taylors (they are only a ten minute drive away) and on initial inspection it looks pretty good! The timing is fairly close and the arbor length appears to be perfect. There were some manufacturing burs on the arbor which led to the barrel being a bit hard to remove, but a few passes with a stone and they cleaned right up. The arbor bottoms out into the barrel hole and when the barrel is then rotated against the frame lug, it exactly lines up. Also, the wedge goes in with a light tap of a nylon screwdriver handle and stop just when the locking lip comes out the right side. So, the first major item of inspection appears to pass quite well.

Now I have been doing some thinking and here is how I would like to go...

1. Seems the Kirst gated converter is more to my liking as it does not require screws to hold it into the frame...also, their webpage says it can be dry fired. Seems like it might be a bit easier to clean, too, as it can be removed.
2. I am going with the OEM factory barrel (have not slugged it yet) and will load my own heel-based black powder cartridges in 38 Long Colt. I actually like the "tinkering around" with reloading (been doing it 36 years now) and it seems using heel-based lead bullets which are externally lubed is the way to go. Yes...lots of steps to build these cartridges but that is fine with me.
3. Also, the Kirst ejector assembly looks very good and that will be what I prefer.

Having done some research on lubrisizers and given that I will likely shoot about 500 rounds a year through this 1851, I am not into mass volume production. The Meacham lubrisizer looks interesting to me as I have a spare RCBS Rockchucker press frame and it (Meacham) could screw right into the die hole. The way it allows a cast bullet to be "pushed through" from the base for sizing/lubing seems a good way to go.

One question I have (not related to this conversion project) is with regard to cylinder end shake adjustment.

I have heard several references to a "cylinder bushing" which is made of thin-wall tubing and cut to the length of a specific Colt revolver. When installed over the arbor it keeps the cylinder back against the recoil shield and allows the hand to have maximum efficiency. This seems like a reasonable way to reduce end shake to almost zero (well, perhaps .001-002") and allow the cylinder gap to be set and then remain constant as the end shake is established.

Is there a certain nominal size tubing to start with (ie, the hole closely matches the arbor diameter) and only the tubing OD and length then needs to be cut on a lathe?

Whew...thanks!

The Head Tomcat
 
Hoof....Thanks!

I had already read that post and is what convinced me that building heeled cast bullets with external lube grooves was the way to go. Their labor intensity does not bother me (I love reloading) and my expected annual shooting rate is not going to take all my time to reload them.

I do not cast lead (yet) and will likely buy the correct bullet which is closely sized to what I need...and then will do the final sizing/lubing myself. I have five pounds of FFFg Swiss powder and that should last me a while.

Once I get back to my home in Virginia, I will be ordering the Kirst gated converter and ejector assembly. Then...slug the barrel to determine its actual bore/groove diameter and go from there with bullets, lubrisizer, etc.

Seems like 2020 will be an interesting year!

The Head Tomcat

PS: Any thoughts about the cylinder bushing I mentioned in an earlier post?
 
Head Tomcat said:
I had already read that post and is what convinced me that building heeled cast bullets with external lube grooves was the way to go. Their labor intensity does not bother me (I love reloading) and my expected annual shooting rate is not going to take all my time to reload them.

I do not cast lead (yet) and will likely buy the correct bullet which is closely sized to what I need...and then will do the final sizing/lubing myself. I have five pounds of FFFg Swiss powder and that should last me a while.

Once I get back to my home in Virginia, I will be ordering the Kirst gated converter and ejector assembly. Then...slug the barrel to determine its actual bore/groove diameter and go from there with bullets, lubrisizer, etc.

Seems like 2020 will be an interesting year!

The Head Tomcat

PS: Any thoughts about the cylinder bushing I mentioned in an earlier post?
Click to expand...
Not sure you will find cast bullets, the guy at alpha bravo and Walt Kirst fell out after walt never fulfilled his part of a trade.

The bushing probably won’t work unless you can get the action perfect. The hand pushes the cylinder forward in this early design and needs a bit of space to not bind.

Truthfully it is fixing a non existent problem as so many of the things sold as improvements are.....
 
What I do not understand is the “why” of all this. Given the cost and effort involved in changing the Uberti so that it will a) be accurate and b) shoot modern CF ammo, why not just buy a modern revolver chambered for the .38 Spl.?
I have a Pietta 1860 for which I have a conversion cylinder so I can understand why someone would want one. All that barrel stuff, though,......what is the point?
No criticisms involved here. Just trying to understand the mindset.
Pete
 
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