T'would be a shame to lose TFL...

C

Cliff

New member
I haven't been on TFL long enough to be considered a "stakeholder", but I (like many others) have been around long enough to remember when Rich was tearing his hair out and the possibility of shutting down the board was mentioned more than once.

That certainly would be Rich's right, and one I would hate to see exercised.

It's common on public forums that are moderated to grumble about posts that are locked or deleted. And while TFL is public in the sense that anyone can read and registered members can post, it is private in that Rich owns and pays for the site out of his own good graces.

As the old saw goes - "No good deed goes unpunished."

Now... I have a question.

If TFL locks or deletes a thread (due to content matter) is it censorship?

I'll enjoy reading all thoughtful responses.

Cliff
 
My 2 cents. TFL is private. You must register and abide by the policies plus, your post must fall within the scope of these policies. If not then you get what comes to you.

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DUM SPIRO SPERO
While I Breath I Hope
 
No, it is not censorship. This is a private club, essentially, and if someone doesn't care for the management, they can vote with their feet.

Besides, I see people complain about this from time to time, but personally I feel that our moderators are hard-working, fair volunteers.

TFL has been one of the greatest resources I've ever seen.

Regards from AZ
 
There is nothing wrong with censorship. If you come into my home I will censor your speech if it doesn't suit me. Rich has the same right here. If you mean is it a First Amendment issue, no it isn't. Censorship is necessary. The question is who does it and what is censored. Almost everyone believes in censorship of some kind. Jerry

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Ecclesiastes 12:13  ¶Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14  For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
 
TFL, unlike many of the other firearms sites, promotes the RKBA. I believe that is because of the excellent staff and their moderation.

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Gunslinger
 
It is not censorship. We are, in effect, visiting Rich's house, and his rules are law. Thank you, Rich.

And yes, the moderators have, I believe been very fair for the time I've been a member.

Long live the 1st Amendment, but my rights stop at your nose.
 
Of course it's censorship. What's wrong with that? We live with it everyday. At least here it is completely voluntary.

From Webster's American Heritage Dictionary:

Censor: (v) To examine and expurgate.

Expurgate: (v) To amend by removing obscene or objectionable parts; to purge out ...

As long as it is not capricious or arbitrary and follows established guidelines, there's nothing wrong with it.

Of course, the evil of "censorship" is drilled into us at the evening news-for-sheep hour, as is the evil of "partisanship" (like when you VOTE!).
 
It is NOT censorship being that a locked thread can still be read. Censoring would delete the thread or comment. TFL has a right to keep the peace and keep nonconstructive criticism and illegal discussions from occuring. I see no problem with the Moderators' actions on any post.
 
Yes it is censorship. In a narrow sense. I view this not as a limit on my, or anyone's "right" of speech. Rather as stopping harm to others.

As an aside I personally would like to see more restraint when people here talk about Reno and Clinton [or other anti's and etc]. Not that I like either Reno's or Clinton's stand on issues.
I try to be polite to people [smart comments to friends are different :)]. To me it is a question of morality and ethics. And following the high road.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cliff:

Now... I have a question.

If TFL locks or deletes a thread (due to content matter) is it censorship?

I'll enjoy reading all thoughtful responses.

Cliff[/quote]

Yes. But so what?
 
I would also like to note that, with 6000+ members, we have remarkably little strife. Most people behave in a genteel manner and show respect for other views.

I do not like to lock threads or bounce people off theboard. Most of the bounces happen to people who are not housebroken and who infringe on others' attempts to communicate in a reasonable manner. Locked threads tend to use the exerience of which threads turn ugly to reduce the amountof flaming; still, no preemptive actions are taken. Threads are closed only after they degenerate into name-calling.

Censorship is a condition of the user agreement. We do, however,try to tread lightly and to limit the intervention to the few dysfunctional threads. If we step on any toes, it is not by design. We would prefer to retain all members, not to have them leave in disgust. The members would be well-advised to help us in that endeavour.

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Oleg "peacemonger" Volk

http://dd-b.net/RKBA
 
A matter close to my heart.

TFL started with a premise that was kinda strange for the Internet: a discussion site that would remain civil and educational throughout it's life. Those of us who started it, including Rob, Mykl and DC, really didn't expect to see it last for much more than a year or so. A year is a very long time in cyberspace...even after enlisting the help of people like Dennis, the two George's, Scott, Gary, Gizmo and several others.

The site almost met our dark prediction. After 15 months, we were on our way to shutdown. Suitors had been interviewed; alternatives had been discussed for transitioning it to the hands of others. None seemed acceptable. And then DC banged the gavel and demanded that we look at staffing....and along came Law Dog, Oleg, Gunny, Mal, TheBluesMan, Coinneach, Long Path and Eric. (I'm doing this from memory at 3AM, guys....if I missed one of you, I owe you a case of Shiner.)

And so we exist today, preparing to celebrate the beginning of Year 3!!! Funds for TFL have never been a problem for us. Everything seems to fall into place in that area. Direction is always an issue in the Lounge. I will take credit for the Policies of this site....they were unilaterally written. But I can take credit for nothing else. The Staff you see listed on the Forum Summary Page are TFL's conscience...it's Members are it's Heart. At this point, I'm just along for the ride. :)

While I'm flattered by statements like "this is Rich's site", I'm also embarassed. It stopped being "my" site when the troops stepped in to save it. It ceases to be "their" site every time the Members step in to remind an outsider, newbie or veteran of it's culture....and that seems to be the rule these days.

Many of you are thanked in the Staff Lounge for your guidance and direction without public notice. Think about that next time you credit Staff with our success. You know who you are....you laugh; you disagree; you argue; you debate. But, in the long run, you always seem to Take The High Road.
Rich Lucibella
 
My hat is off to Rich and all the great Moderators whom have created and maintained a great spot in cyberspace. Thanks, guys 'n' gals.
I see no censorship here; that is gov't imposed. Instead, I see rules of comportment which are enforced. As surely as I'd throw someone out of my house for improper behavior, they do it here sometimes. Just as surely, as long as one remains civil, one is welcome to stay.
"Open to the public" does not mean "publicly owned;" this is private property, and the owner(s) have every right to make and enforce whatever rules they see fit. I think it says a lot that the staff does always "take the high road," and that discussion is allowed here on many topics that would get one booted from other boards I've frequented.

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Shoot straight & make big holes, regards, Richard at The Shottist's Center
 
I speak for no one but myself.
But if ever comes the day that the high road is not taken here, then that day will be my last and I will never look back.

Common sense and mutual respect go a long way here at TFL. :)
Thanks everyone for helping make it what it is.



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...defend the 2nd.
No fate but what we make...
 
Lose TFL? That would indeed be a sad day.

Over the last few months I have enjoyed TFL and I view it as the ultimate source of firearms related info. Just think, this site is like a huge interactive Gun Magazine with over 6000 contributers. And just as I like some Gun writers over others, I have my favorite Posters as well. But all in all, everyone has something to share.

Censorship? Well, no magazine exists without editors(Moderaters/Administrators). I just try to abide by the rules and not make their job any harder. I think all the staff do a commendable job but sometimes they get more flak than thanks.

I've read a couple of recent threads about our 1st Amendmendment rights here. Remember, this Forum is privately owned and operated. We all agreed to play by the rules. If a thread gets closed just move on to something else. In most cases, I think someone inadvertently goes off limits. In a few cases I think they know better. There's no sense dwelling on it. The only thing about the 1st Amendment that I see applicable is that we have the right to peaceably assemble here. I would sure hate to lose that right or opportunity.

Just my $.02, Gene
 
Is it censorship to lock a thread? Sure! And I welcome it, as it keeps this forum useable and interesting in a way that few Internet forums replicate. If you don't like the censorship policy of Rich and team, the answer is simple: Leave!

The First Amendment only prohibits Congress from passing laws abridging freedom of speech. By extension, this means the government can't be in the censorship business. However, it is simply not illegal censorship for a private entity to censor speech. If you need clarification on this, read the First Amendment.

My problem with censorship is when private groups use governmental entities to enforce "politically correct" censoring, which is what happens on many college campuses these days. The latest tactic is calling politically incorrect speech "hate speech", soon to be prosecutable as a "hate crime" if the social democrats get their way.
 
Rich--excellent post. I couldn't agree more, in discourse the high road is always the best route to take. Thumbs-up all around to TFL. And thanks! :D
 
When your granmama washed your mouth out with soap for using dirty words, was that censorship?

When Teach made you stay after school for name-calling, was that censorship?

When you do a bunch of jaw-jacking in a beer-joint and some Big Ol' Boy rearranges your face, is that censorship?

Or are the above instances merely the results which happen when one behaves childishly?

Ever notice that thinking like an adult, and writing like a rational, mature grownup person will not get complaints about your posts, here?

And there are ways to express strong emotions or dis-satisfaction without using words which would embarrass your preacher or grandmother. Most of those words merely indicate a lack of any functional vocabulary, anyway.

:), Art
 
Not my sandbox, didn't pay to play in this sandbox, me gets overly rowdy me gets tossed. Sounds right fair to me.

I think this site serves the Republic better than most. Educational AND fun.

I did not pee on your sand castle, and I won't do it again.

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Sam I am, grn egs n packin

Nikita Khrushchev predicted confidently in a speech in Bucharest, Rumania on June 19, 1962 that: " The United States will eventually fly the Communist Red Flag...the American people will hoist it themselves."
 
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