Two Year Old Shoots Woman at Wal-Mart

I agree they aren't the best place to carry, but the reality is that is the only way many women WILL carry a firearm due to the way they dress
Click to expand...
I'm going to go out on a limb here, but carrying a gun is a huge responsibility. It requires us to make a few changes in our lives. If part of that involves dressing around the gun, so be it.
 
The gun control folk have always made two specific claims against gun ownership and cc:

- They argue that they have the right to be in public without being exposed to the potential hazard of other people carrying guns.

- A owner, friend or family member has a greater chance of being injured or killed by their own gun than from a criminal attacker's gun.

Firearm sales and ccw permit numbers have exploded in the past several years and our exposure to Rutledge type of incidents has increased greatly...
IF we continue to disrespect our firearms by not taking their carry and storage more seriously the anti-gun people will soon be proven correct.
The media will continue to sensationalize every incident and public opinion will slowly sway back the other direction, Concealed Carry laws will be voted back off of the books and we'll probably get a few new laws for locked storage.
 
Last edited:
I have a wife who time and time again I tell purse carry isn't worth a !@#$ and still I see her drop that pistol in her purse and go.
Click to expand...

Despite the drawbacks and the risks, at least she has the gun with her, which I think is something worthwhile.

I have not yet heard what gun was involved. If you carry a gun, not in a proper holster on your person, you have to ensure the gun is safe. Meaning that the gun cannot fire if dropped, grabbed, or something "pulls" the trigger.

Loose in a purse risks something pulling the trigger. Safeties can be moved, and cannot be considered 100% reliable.

RESPONSIBILITY

its a big word. And its a big job. One too many fail at, all too often.
 
hartcreek said:
I set up my mothers purse... She caries the purse with the one inch wide nylon strap around her neck and shoulder bandoler style with the bag hanging down in front if her covered by her arm.
Click to expand...
FWIW one potential downside of such a setup is that a large and powerful assailant may wind up using the secured shoulder strap as a handle to swing a small and light victim around during an attempted snatch-and-dash. (A similar concern is largely what caused the old-school Sam Browne shoulder-strap police pistol belts to fall out of favor.)
44 AMP said:
RESPONSIBILITY

its a big word. And its a big job. One too many fail at, all too often.
Click to expand...
+1. FWIW I think that an apt comparison for this incident is a car accident caused by a person leaving a young child in a car parked on a hill, assuming that he/she won't be able (or simply won't try) to put the car in neutral and/or disengage the parking brake. Kids naturally enjoy yanking levers, flipping switches, and pushing buttons or pedals. Same underlying cause, same consequences.
 
The Centers for Disease Control counted 857 unintentional firearm deaths in 2011 involving kids younger than 14. Fewer than 20 states make it a crime to fail to store guns safely around children."
Click to expand...


I'm not sure that is accurate. Looking at the CDC's WISQARS site, I see 591 total accidental firearm related deaths for for all age groups in 2011. For children 14 and under, I see 74 accidental firearm deaths for 2011.
 
"FWIW I think that an apt comparison for this incident is a car accident caused by a person leaving a young child in a car parked on a hill, assuming that he/she won't be able (or simply won't try) to put the car in neutral and/or disengage the parking brake. Kids naturally enjoy yanking levers, flipping switches, and pushing buttons or pedals."
This is a very apt comparison. My old man has a story where he and his kid brother accidentally let loose the family station wagon on a valley-shaped (near-empty) parking lot, where it rolled back and forth to a stop with the panicked little brats trying to slow its velocity with their hands the whole time. Astonishing that neither was hurt or killed, but there hasn't been a push to get manual drive parking brakes* locked into the ignition system to prevent accidental release by children.

Oh, I'm sure the 'utility' of convenient grocery haulers makes the multitude of risks inherent to motor vehicle travel (esp. back in the day) an acceptable trade off (statists just love thinking in terms of barter when it comes to life and freedom ;))

TCB

*about to be a moot point when manuals are barred from production for emissions reasons within the decade
 
Kids naturally enjoy yanking levers, flipping switches, and pushing buttons or pedals
Click to expand...

Yes, they do. AND sometimes they do know more about what they are doing than you think they do. I knew a child who, at age 3 (three) opened the large heavy door of a 79 LTD II Ford, got behind the wheel, turned the keys ON, AND put the gearshift in Drive. He then "drove" his grandfather's car as it rolled downhill. I honestly think he would have made the turn if he had actually started the engine so the power steering would have been on. Fortunately the car stuck in soft dirt, and there were no injuries.

At 2 years old, I don't think the child was beyond the "I'm curious, I grab" stage, but very soon after, they are aware of more than we think. Understanding the whys, and why nots of things takes more maturity, and usually follows after the physical ability to do something is possible.

They watch us, see us do things, and they LEARN. Children seldom understand the full reasoning of things, but watching us teaches them how to do tasks. How soon a child can actually do the task depends, of course, on many things, but don't think a child who has seen it done (perhaps often) doesn't know what to do. Some really do.

Some children are truly exceptional, at ages you might scoff at. One four year old, who's dad had a complex component stereo, which sat on a shelf 6ft off the floor (to be kid safe). Amp, preamp, tuner, turntable, tape deck, equalizer, etc, and set up so it needed a series of switches in just the right positions for each operation. (not one touch button operation). When a visitor asked how to turn on the radio (when dad was out of the room) the little girl, playing on the floor, without even looing at the stereo gave step by step instructions on which switch had to be where to get what. She had never done it, didn't seem interested in doing it, but she knew HOW to do it. Never was taught, only watched her Dad do it. A lot.

A five year old got a .22 rifle out of a closet. Got the BOLT for the .22 out of a dresser drawer, and stacked up things until he got the box of ammo from a high shelf. Got the bolt in the gun, and a shell in the chamber. Then fired it in the house, fortunately only putting a hole in the floor.

I mention these example only to illustrate some things children have done that I have personal knowledge of, and to show that just because you don't think they might be able to do it, doesn't mean they can't.

The important point is that in any and all of these children & gun tragedies it is always some failure on the part of the adult that creates the condition for it to happen.
 
My daughter will be 3 in May.
There is a huge difference in her abilities from just this summer to now.
In March she will still be 2 and able to pull a trigger with ease.
I learned quickly not to underestimate her.... especially the power of those headbutts to the nutz. :eek:
 
Tragic. Just tragic. Not just for loss of the young mother, but the child will most certainly learn one day what happened. That's truly tragic.

I've read the victims father speak of how it hurt him to hear people refer to her as irresponsible. Without the specifics of what gun/purse (CCW or not). She was indeed a CCW holder and reportedly practiced often. It seems distasteful to speak ill.

If there is to be any good come of this, the only hope seems to be in raising awareness of the importance of maintaining control of your weapon at all times. IMHO such a purse rig is at best a dangerous compromise for many reasons.

I think it more constructive to her memory that we think of her as a mother that wanted to protect her family. Maybe, just maybe it will help prevent another such incident.
 
As we former boys know, we never got in our mother's purse!...Think woman think! Too late. I'll add that the husband was just as stupid for buying her the purse to begin with!
 
Last edited:
Again...

Albuquerque NM - Another toddler has pulled a gun from his irrisponsible mother's purse and managaged to shoot his dad in the butt and pregnant mother in the shoulder with one shot.
 
Kinda confirms my affection for manual safeties. Not that it would absolutely prevent such incidents, but I don't think I would carry an unholstered point-and-squirt gun.
 
And here's the story as reported by the BBC. There's an important point in this: the BBC reports incidents like this every time they happen. They don't report on legitimate self-defense cases. They don't report favorably on gun-rights issues. They only report things like this.

It leaves an impression on their readership that the American gun culture is dangerous, self-destructive, and ultimately ludicrous.
 
The same can be said about American MSM, 90% of the time, it's cases like this sadly, rarely do we ever hear about legitimate cases of self defense involving firearms.

Such is the way of the anti gun media sadly.
 
Revolver

* I assume the gun involved was a small automatic.
This story backs up my opinion that revolvers are the safest when a person insists on carrying it with a shell in the chamber.
In this case, I'm not sure a 2yo could pull a trigger with a 5-10# pull.

Small revolvers, Saturday-Night-Specials of the past, are hard to find, but there are small autos that fit the bill. Taurus has a P22 that has a ~8# trigger with a DA long pull, plus a thumb safety, that a small child could not operate. At least this is not a snatch and pull the trigger gun. I think they have a 380 model.

I feel a person is responsible for what a gun does after they take it out of their house regardless of the circumstances. In this case, the mother should be charged with providing a minor with a firearm that led to the shooting of a person, herself.
 
You are just wrong about kids not being able to operate the gun due to safeties and trigger pull. Let's get past that. Studies of hand strength in kids show that they do have the strength at that age in one hand and with two being used, certainly they do.

The message is this - no mechanical variant of current carry guns is safe if a child gets hold of it.
 
The only part that might be helpful is the manual safety, and only if the adult is standing right there and dumb'lucky enough to see the kid fumbling with it.
It might buy the adult just enough time...

So if your idiotic enough to carry a loose gun in your purse, at least have the sense to buy one with a manual safety, a stiff ornery one if you can find it.
 
Stop thinking of it as a gun, an object. It's a lethal weapon, to be constantly under positive control. Should have kept her purse on her shoulder.

I hate second-guessing tragic events, but complacency kills sometimes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top