teufelmann55
New member
Allrighty then:
Wallew is a good friend of mine, who posted these pics from some of my travels.
Here is my take on things, I don't claim to be an expert on international matters.
1: Iraq is different from Afganistan in many ways IMHO:
a: We did not invade Afganistan on some trumped up idea.
b: In some ways we are viewed as the "Hostiles".
c: The Iraqi system and train of thought is so far removed from the western ideals that it is difficult to understand and comprehend. You may train them to do something 100 times but they may do it their own way regardless of how silly it seems to us. One of our manuals trying to explain the complicated Arab mindset refers to one section of their thought as "Wish vs. Reality".
d: Are they (as a whole) bad people? IMHO no, just very, very different.
e: Corrupt: probably a little more than our gov't. Face it, money makes things happen alot of the time. Alot of the officials seemed to be on the take (Same as Afganistan).
f: Will they continue improve as we leave? I don't know but that is something they as a people will have to decide upon-not us.
g:As for being a sgt. and seeing lots of things around the only persons who saw more were our lieutenant (one of the 10%ers worth saving) and platoon sergeant because they went out every day. We had a fair bit of interaction with the locals in pursuance of our missions. Most officers in my battalion never left the base and did any interaction but gave reports on the local population based only on the intel. we and other platoons provided-they were too important to risk being killed in their opinion was how I gathered it. "Boots on the ground" help, but admittingly you only see so much. But when you never get out and all you see is other peoples' work that is worse.
h: Do most Iraqis want us there: I don't know for sure-I would guess not. But Imagine this. One day French president Georges DeShrubberie' decides to invade America because they claim our gov't is corrupt and producing W.M.D. again so they and Germany with a little help form a few others move in, ousting the president, suspending our constitution and religious rights "for the better good of the people and their safety".
They sent a shoestring force, planning for a short occupation led by the spineless political minded general "Thomilin des Francs". While large enough to defeat our army, is not large enough to occupy and disarm the country properly (same mistake Hitler made in 1940 in Jugosl.). So vast stockpiles of weapons and munitions are hidden- while the doomed U.S army fights delaying actions for about 6 weeks. Long enough for our special forces units and others go underground.
After the spectacular initial successes of the combined Franco/German armies "BeDazzle them with our B.S." campaign is over. The armies are in the capitol.
Unchecked looting and is done by civilians who have been cut off from electrical,food and water supplies for 6 weeks. Looting becomes more like pillaging as museums, and all other manners of municipal works are destroyed. The too small invading army; not yet the needed larger occupying army stares in apathy and impotence for the first while (unlike America in 1991 or WWII). Piles of uncollected weaponry and ordnance are left in the streets, and fields. Also thousands of tons of unused explosives and ammunition are literally left on the frontier from the unsuccesful 10 year Amero-Canadian punitive war of border alignment. The former American army and police force are disbanded and dismissed without pay by the stingy French War minister "Donade de Reumefuelles" in a confusing policy.
To help correct the seething problems a popular retired general from Gemany is sent to help the mission "General von Zinnethen" saying to the cameras "I hope I won't have to be there too long" as he leaves Germany. He jumps into a hotbed of controversy......
3 or so months later resistance organizations on multiple fronts spring up. Their reasons vary from group to group and sometimes they even fight eachother. Sometimes going to the point of telling the Franco/German occupying force where the others are located.
Allegations of bogus intelligence start to appear on the news and that there were no WMD. Supplies to the "freedom fighter" are brought in from our former enemies the Anglo-Canadians. Mexico not wanted to be forced to eat snails and sour kraut and being down wind from the French garrisons provides a tenous haven and re-supply ground for some of the freedom fighters.
Your privacy is interrupted sometimes by military forces in the middle of the night while all "military age" individuals are rounded up and questioned.
As an American what would you do?
I could go on for days on this one........
While I may not have agreed on the reasons for Iraqi war or our prosecution of it, I believed then and now that Saddam and his family did need to be removed by whatever means necessary, but the US passed on a few chances to get rid of him in the past-I would have preferred a US supported coup or assassination: I will not fail to support the troops that are involved in it.
Wallew is a good friend of mine, who posted these pics from some of my travels.
Here is my take on things, I don't claim to be an expert on international matters.
1: Iraq is different from Afganistan in many ways IMHO:
a: We did not invade Afganistan on some trumped up idea.
b: In some ways we are viewed as the "Hostiles".
c: The Iraqi system and train of thought is so far removed from the western ideals that it is difficult to understand and comprehend. You may train them to do something 100 times but they may do it their own way regardless of how silly it seems to us. One of our manuals trying to explain the complicated Arab mindset refers to one section of their thought as "Wish vs. Reality".
d: Are they (as a whole) bad people? IMHO no, just very, very different.
e: Corrupt: probably a little more than our gov't. Face it, money makes things happen alot of the time. Alot of the officials seemed to be on the take (Same as Afganistan).
f: Will they continue improve as we leave? I don't know but that is something they as a people will have to decide upon-not us.
g:As for being a sgt. and seeing lots of things around the only persons who saw more were our lieutenant (one of the 10%ers worth saving) and platoon sergeant because they went out every day. We had a fair bit of interaction with the locals in pursuance of our missions. Most officers in my battalion never left the base and did any interaction but gave reports on the local population based only on the intel. we and other platoons provided-they were too important to risk being killed in their opinion was how I gathered it. "Boots on the ground" help, but admittingly you only see so much. But when you never get out and all you see is other peoples' work that is worse.
h: Do most Iraqis want us there: I don't know for sure-I would guess not. But Imagine this. One day French president Georges DeShrubberie' decides to invade America because they claim our gov't is corrupt and producing W.M.D. again so they and Germany with a little help form a few others move in, ousting the president, suspending our constitution and religious rights "for the better good of the people and their safety".
They sent a shoestring force, planning for a short occupation led by the spineless political minded general "Thomilin des Francs". While large enough to defeat our army, is not large enough to occupy and disarm the country properly (same mistake Hitler made in 1940 in Jugosl.). So vast stockpiles of weapons and munitions are hidden- while the doomed U.S army fights delaying actions for about 6 weeks. Long enough for our special forces units and others go underground.
After the spectacular initial successes of the combined Franco/German armies "BeDazzle them with our B.S." campaign is over. The armies are in the capitol.
Unchecked looting and is done by civilians who have been cut off from electrical,food and water supplies for 6 weeks. Looting becomes more like pillaging as museums, and all other manners of municipal works are destroyed. The too small invading army; not yet the needed larger occupying army stares in apathy and impotence for the first while (unlike America in 1991 or WWII). Piles of uncollected weaponry and ordnance are left in the streets, and fields. Also thousands of tons of unused explosives and ammunition are literally left on the frontier from the unsuccesful 10 year Amero-Canadian punitive war of border alignment. The former American army and police force are disbanded and dismissed without pay by the stingy French War minister "Donade de Reumefuelles" in a confusing policy.
To help correct the seething problems a popular retired general from Gemany is sent to help the mission "General von Zinnethen" saying to the cameras "I hope I won't have to be there too long" as he leaves Germany. He jumps into a hotbed of controversy......
3 or so months later resistance organizations on multiple fronts spring up. Their reasons vary from group to group and sometimes they even fight eachother. Sometimes going to the point of telling the Franco/German occupying force where the others are located.
Allegations of bogus intelligence start to appear on the news and that there were no WMD. Supplies to the "freedom fighter" are brought in from our former enemies the Anglo-Canadians. Mexico not wanted to be forced to eat snails and sour kraut and being down wind from the French garrisons provides a tenous haven and re-supply ground for some of the freedom fighters.
Your privacy is interrupted sometimes by military forces in the middle of the night while all "military age" individuals are rounded up and questioned.
As an American what would you do?
I could go on for days on this one........
While I may not have agreed on the reasons for Iraqi war or our prosecution of it, I believed then and now that Saddam and his family did need to be removed by whatever means necessary, but the US passed on a few chances to get rid of him in the past-I would have preferred a US supported coup or assassination: I will not fail to support the troops that are involved in it.
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