FireForged
New member
if any of that is true.. it can easily stand as the basis for legitimate criticism. It still does not negate the point I was making.
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- Thread starter simonov jr
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Don Fischer
New member
So, how many people on either side of this discussion have ever found yourself in a similar situation? I never have been. Haven't been trained for it either.
I have an obligation to protect my family and myself, no one else. I would help a really close friend. There's a lot of other's in the area and every one of them has the same opportunity to carry just as I do. Yet they choose not to! That does not make me instantly responsible morally or any other way to protect them.
You engage and the cops show up, are you a good guy or a bad guy? Maybe your wearing a white hat to identify yourself? If your an on duty officer, charging in just might get even more people killed, My take is wait for the swat team, they are likely better trained than you are. Of course if it happens right in front of you and you run off, I got a problem with it.
Listening to a number of CC people talk, it worry's me. Seem's they live to be that GGAG regardless their training and background. I had security training in the service, I was the Security NCO at one unit. But we trained for aggression of a different type. Could I charge in and risk extra lives, sure! Then some of you would call me the bad guy if people got killed that shouldn't have! No win situation.
The gun I carry is not intended for assualt! 8 rds in the mag is it. It hide's away very nicely and will deliver a bullet in the right situation. I have another that I seldom carry I'd call an assualt weapon. It carry's 15 rds with a back up mag of yet another 15 rds. I carry for personnal protection of myself, family and close friends. Not to cover the ass of all those anti's that don't want to carry!
I have an obligation to protect my family and myself, no one else. I would help a really close friend. There's a lot of other's in the area and every one of them has the same opportunity to carry just as I do. Yet they choose not to! That does not make me instantly responsible morally or any other way to protect them.
You engage and the cops show up, are you a good guy or a bad guy? Maybe your wearing a white hat to identify yourself? If your an on duty officer, charging in just might get even more people killed, My take is wait for the swat team, they are likely better trained than you are. Of course if it happens right in front of you and you run off, I got a problem with it.
Listening to a number of CC people talk, it worry's me. Seem's they live to be that GGAG regardless their training and background. I had security training in the service, I was the Security NCO at one unit. But we trained for aggression of a different type. Could I charge in and risk extra lives, sure! Then some of you would call me the bad guy if people got killed that shouldn't have! No win situation.
The gun I carry is not intended for assualt! 8 rds in the mag is it. It hide's away very nicely and will deliver a bullet in the right situation. I have another that I seldom carry I'd call an assualt weapon. It carry's 15 rds with a back up mag of yet another 15 rds. I carry for personnal protection of myself, family and close friends. Not to cover the ass of all those anti's that don't want to carry!
So, how many people on either side of this discussion have ever found yourself in a similar situation?
I have, when I was in the military. Not in combat either for that particular situation.
I have an obligation to protect my family and myself, no one else.
As a leader I had an obligation to the soldiers to ensure their safety and maintain discipline. Aside from that, they were my brothers.
You engage and the cops show up, are you a good guy or a bad guy? Maybe your wearing a white hat to identify yourself?
I had the advantages of everyone in the area knowing exactly who I was and being senior ranking to nearly everyone around. Also any law enforcement was hours away.
If your an on duty officer, charging in just might get even more people killed, My take is wait for the swat team, they are likely better trained than you are.
After Sandy Hook one of the many things Obama did to try to help was to mandate federally funded active shooter training for every police officer in America. The idea being that a fast response is much better than a highly skilled response. Unfortunately not all departments followed federal guidelines or engaged in the training. If they had, Orlando and Parkland might have had different results.
I had security training in the service, I was the Security NCO at one unit. But we trained for aggression of a different type.
Active shooter response is certainly more specialized and different than general military training or police training. It is one of the rare events that is closer to a military response than it is to a police response.
Could I charge in and risk extra lives, sure! Then some of you would call me the bad guy if people got killed that shouldn't have! No win situation.
That has yet to happen anywhere. Yet you seem like a good guy. A good guy always has to know his limitations.
spacemanspiff
New member
does an armed CCW holder have a moral or ethical duty to the defenseless people around him or her to follow the example of Peterson or Willeford in a similar situation?
I don't feel like beating around the bush, so: NO
FireForged
New member
exactly!
In morality I believe there are negative duties that require one abstain from things. For instance murder. Society and the golden rule serve, in general, to set negative duties.
There are then positive duties that obligate you to certain action such as the defense of others. You are not born with positive duties but you take them on.
A sworn officer's positive duties are very carefully laid out by department regulations. While I believe some of them are ridiculous those regulations are subject to public discussion, criticism, and change.
My positive duty as a civilian is limited to my children, my wife, and those I have provided a safe environment to such as guests in my house and employees or customers in my business.
I have zero positive duty to the collective as a whole in regards to defending them.
There are then positive duties that obligate you to certain action such as the defense of others. You are not born with positive duties but you take them on.
A sworn officer's positive duties are very carefully laid out by department regulations. While I believe some of them are ridiculous those regulations are subject to public discussion, criticism, and change.
My positive duty as a civilian is limited to my children, my wife, and those I have provided a safe environment to such as guests in my house and employees or customers in my business.
I have zero positive duty to the collective as a whole in regards to defending them.
13gunhey498
Inactive
I agree with you completely. but still, if you are a law-abiding citizen and you see that the police have CCW, then you should put your CCW aside unless the police threaten youAny CCW holder would most likely be shot by police in any of those situations. The Police have no idea who the criminal is in most cases. Plus they're just as scared as anybody else. Most PD firearms training and individual skill level is minimal too.
The CCW guy may be a better shot than the average cop, but he has no training at all. Having a CCW is not an urban combat licence. It's about self-defence.