Two Carry Questions (weapon and holster)

M

Malyk

Inactive
Recently I've been researching the idea of Concealed Carry and I've come to the conclusion that it is something that I want to do. However, I thought I'd ask a few questions to the more experienced people here before I did anything drastic like lay down a ton of cash for a weapon and holster that isn't going to work for me. So here they are:

1: Handgun - My research has basically lead me to the conclusion that I will buy a Kahr P40 or K40 Covert. I've seen many comments on here regarding these handguns, but any other info would be great. Is there any reason that you would NOT buy either one of these guns? Is the lack of a pinky finger on the grip a big concern, both for an actual "combat" situation and for range shooting? I liked the feel of the P40 I held, and even the Covert, but I'm concerned that the recoil of the .40 round will be uncomfortable during shooting sessions. I want a gun that will be fun to shoot at the range too. Comments?

2: Holster - The dress code where I work is business casual. That means khaki pants and a tucked in, polo or button up shirt. I think this only leaves me with the choice for holster like Thunderwear or Fist Inc.'s Secret System holster. Those would pboth allow me to carry between the legs (essentially). Is that really my only option other than ankle (which I will not do)? Any other holsters out there that would let me carry in a tucked in polo shirt and khaki's? Basically I'm just looking for some direction here.

Thanks for any and all insight you guys can give. :)

Mike

P.S. - If it gives you any insight, I currently have a Walther P99 .40 that I love, but fear it is to big to carry comfortably.
 
The Kahrs are great guns,well made and accurate. I was just shooting a K-9 Elite last weekend and I loved it. In your particular case I`d make the following suggestions though. Consider the MK-9, carried in a good pocket holster,bellyband,Kramer Confidant undershirt holster or even Thunderwear. The MK-9 is still a good accurate little gun but it`s small enough to go easily where the others will go but not as easily. The 9mm ammo is dirt cheap and with little guns you need to practice even more than with full sized ones. With good ammo 9mm is just fine and much more power in such a compact package will slow down your controllable rate of rapid fire. The K-9 Elite with 124gr.+P Golddots was very controllable but still a bit snappy when doing double and triple taps. Good luck with your decision. Marcus
 
HAMMER AND TENNIS RACKET

One is a tool ("weapon"), the other a toy ("range shooting").

Suggest your business attire calls out for a Kel-Tec P32, and your sporting side wants a Ruger 22/45.

What do you think?
 
If you think that the .40 recoil might cause you a problem, I suggest renting a model that you intend to purchase and find out. It would be a shame to spend a couple hundred bucks on a pistol you don't like and/or can't shoot well.

A CCW is something that you want to be 100% sure on because it's your life it will be defending.
 
I carry my Steyr M40 inside the wasteband in the 4 o'clock position in an Action Direct Defender. It's larger then any of the Kahrs and I have no problems keeping it well hidden in "business casual" dress (which is especialy important since I don't live in a CCW state ;) ). If I didn't have to keep it in such deep cover I'd get my hands on a MiltSparks Versa-Max II which should allow tucking of a shirt when you use the little clips (one major advantage of the Defender is that it pulls the gun closer to your body and there are no clips or straps showing...the downside is that putting it on and taking it off are a pain, so is reholstering the weapon if you have to draw it...just about have to make a trip to the mens room and drop your drawers to get the gun back in...I expect that wouldn't be as much of a problem with the Kahr since it's thinner then my Steyr)

I plan on getting a Kahr MK40 soon because I believe I could get away with wearing it in my Defender while wearing a t-shirt and shorts and nobody would be able to tell. :D


If you're concerned about the recoil from the .40 I recommend you go to the range and rent a .40 (preferably a Kahr) and a 9mm and put about 50 rounds through each before you make up your mind. I think the recoil of the .40 is somewhat overstated, then again I've never fired any .40 but my Steyr and its ergonomics are Godlike so maybe in the little Kahr it would be an issue (I'm not all that recoil sensative so it's not a major issue for me, but you should make sure).
 
I would second Gryphon and Marcus suggestions. I have a K9 Stainless Elite, MK9 Stainless Elite, and K40. The K9 is very nice to shoot. The MK9 has a bit more recoil, but not much. For me, the K40 has enough recoil as to be decidely unpleasant. It smacks my hand between the index finger and thumb, enough to redden the skin. I have medium to large sized hands. I've heard some folks with smaller hands say that it doesn't bother them. I've added a Harrts recoil reducer and grip the gun very tightly. That reduces the felt recoil somewhat, but still I wouldn't want to go through more than 70 rounds or so through K40 at one time.

I find my K9 to be fun to shoot at the range. The MK9 is a bit more of a challenge, due to the shorter sight radius. The K40, while a great carry gun, isn't fun for me, due to its recoil. YMMV

Another holster to consider is Milt Sparks VersaMax II.

http://www.miltsparks.com

M1911
 
If recoil is a problem, maybe you should consider a 9 mm as a good alternative. That being said, unless you have some physical malady, recoil should not be a problem once you have learned to shoot your gun properly. For example, I can shoot my .45 one handed with my right hand just fine, but not with the left. I have not mastered one-handed off hand shooting and so the recoil is a little painful in my wrist. I CAN shoot two handed off hand with no pain issues, so the problem is mastering the properly elements for one-handed off hand shooting.

You may experience some discomfort, but that should pass as you become familiar with the weapon and how it handles. Getting some proper instruction will help reduce that even further.

As for your holster situation, you might try some other alternatives. You might consider being just a little more stylish than your coworkers and start wearing a sportsjacket. This is especially true now that the weather has turned cooler. As spring comes around, you could start incorporating some vests into your wardrobe. Of course you won't want typical cargo vests for that sort of work situation, but if you take the time, you can find some casual stylish vests that will do the trick for you. Patience and creativity will help a lot here.

Do you carry a day planner? If so, get one that will accomodate the gun in a hidden pocket. Remember, you have to keep it with you!!!

If you wear casual trousers like Dockers, get some pleated versions with slightly larger front pockets and get a pocket holster. This last idea will require time in front of a mirror with your gun in a pocket holster to determine whether it will print or not. Remember that dark colors will print less noticeably than light colors as will as heavier fabrics over lighter weight fabrics.

A better alternative than thunderwear might be a Pagerpal. Personally, they did not work for me at all, giving me what my wife referred to as the look of an impressive 'package' down there. However, they seem to work for some people and the Kahr might be small enough for it to work for you. You can put your own pager on the gizmo or if you don't use a pager, get the version with the knife holster and carry a small knife on your belt (or so it would appear).

You might also find that some of the tuckable holsters will work for you. I have a Galco Deep Cover holster for a Colt Pony and it conceals well under my shirt with my shirt tucked. I also have a little bit of a spare tire and so the gun and holster are somewhat seated into the body fat. Do note that anytime you have a gun that is against your skin, you can end up with corrosion issues. You will need to wear an undershirt to keep the gun and your skin completely separated.

Keep in mind that the more concealed something is, the harder it can be to access in a crisis. Thunderwear is not a quick draw. Pagerpals require two hands to use or a lengthy two stage one-handed draw. Shirts tucked over holsters require the shirt to be grabbed and forceably pulled upward to expose the gun underneath so that you may draw with your other hand. Once again, this is a two handed job or a lengthy two step one handed process. IWB holsters conceal well, but usually require a concealment garment like a sportsjacket. The draw is fast, can be done one handed, but you have to have the additional concealment garment.

The last option I would suggest is that you get a much smaller gun to carry specifically at work, assuming that you feel that your work is actually a pretty safe place. This would be something that you could put into any pocket without problem. It would allow you some defensive fire power and little or no chance of discovery by your coworkers. Then you could carry your larger Kahr for all other occasions. Personally, I would endeavor to make clothing/carry changes that would allow me to carry the larger Kahr and have the better fire power than to go with the smaller and under powered little gun idea, but you may not have that option and if not, then the tiny gun may be the way to go at work.
 
Another option is locking it in your car (if you have secured parking) or in a locked desk...do you really need to have it on you all day at work? Also, if your company has a no guns policy, even with a CCW you could get in trouble...
 
Another option is locking it in your car (if you have secured parking) or in a locked desk...do you really need to have it on you all day at work? Also, if your company has a no guns policy, even with a CCW you could get in trouble...

Why not post a sign outside at work that any BG intent on making trouble shall give 20 minutes notice while you are at it.

Not to mention that some states are / or have pushed through legislation that makes the owner of a stolen weapon used in a violent act partially responsible if that weapon were not deemed to be truely secure.


What is your resistance to ankle carry?
 
I carry the Kahr K40 covert in a Milt Sparks summer special holster. Perfectly happy with the holster so I can't really help there.

The 40 cal recoil doesn't bother me at all, even for extended shooting with 180 grain factory loads - and I have small/average sized man's hands. The five shot mag which prevents me from using my pinky finger is another thing ... I bought 2 six round extended mags. They don't hamper my concealing the weapon and they make a WORLD of difference in shooting comfort !!!

Definitely recommend the extended mag.

You will definitely love the Kahr !!!

Good luck and stay safe ...

Raider
 
I second the Action Defender belly band. You can have the gun at the 9:00 position, (if your right handed) then all you need to do is unbutton 1 button on your shirt and reach in to access the gun. Another option is the Action Defender Deep Concealment holster. It is a shoulder type holster that is worn under your shirt!
 
I have the Kahr P9 Covert, and have found that pocket carry is very easy HOWEVER do not do it without a pocket holster - one that covers the trigger! Uncle Mike's has one that goes for $9-11 and works fine - Gun Tests magazine rated it their favorite pocket holster. Concealment is good, weapon readily accessible, and draw is efficient. One other accessory to consider for your Kahr Covert - the Hogue Universal Handall grip sleeve. I was concerned about the shorter grip on the Covert as well. The Handall fits well and does the job of giving you a better overall grip and control. About $8.
 
I have a K40 and I've carried it three ways so far.
1. Nylon IWB - semi comfortable at 4 o'clock
2. Leather Belt Slide - (high rise) comfortable at 2 o'clock both standing and sitting.
3. One day I wore my suspenders back support and put my K40 in one of the tension straps at 9 o'clock. This was extremely comfortable and I think I will get my self a bellyband. I've read some great reports on here of Gunslinger's version. You can find info on it if you do a search. (This would make a great deep concealment holster for work. Wear an undershirt, the bellyband with gun in shoulder holster position, and an oxford type overshirt)

Good luck. I have been extremely happy with my K40. I'd love to get the little brother MK40, but I won't find them in this state.

btw, K40 is too big for ankle at least with the pants I wear. the MK version in 9 or 40 would work well.
 
By Malyk

P.S. - If it gives you any insight, I currently have a Walther P99 .40 that I love, but fear it is to big to carry comfortably
Click to expand...

The Walther P99 is a fine carry pistol!! When I am not carrying my Glock 36, I carry my P99. :) I can carry it all day and not even hardly know it's there!! Even though it's a full size service pistol, it was also designed to be concealed!! I use a Kydex IWB holster, covered by a t-shirt. The FIST Secret System can be had for the P99!!!

PS: I am down on Kahrs because they are the only pistol that is actually to small for my hand!!!! (I wear ex-small gloves)
 
Thunderwear's website said, and may still, that their Small holster was recommended for Kahrs. That thing's for tiny guns! On their own via email, TW said the Medium size is better for Kahrs. I agree....

If you behave yourself at the office, your CCW secret won't be discovered.
 
My office is casual, jeans or dockers and tucked in shirts. I wear a Kahr MK9 in a Thunderwear holster everyday. Thunderwear takes a while to get used to. Sometimes people that know I carry in Thunderwear can't tell if I am carrying or not.
 
With the Versa Max II, you need only wear a 1.5 inch belt and blouse your shirt a little over the top of the holster. I carry this way all the time,and that is with a 1911 government model.
 
One caution. Deep concealment gets really old, really fast. Remember, the deeper the concealment, the more uncomfortable it is. I would guess that you will hate it in a week or two and leave the gun in the car. If you really want to carry all day concealed, I would recommend a Kel-tec P32 ($200) in an Uncle Mike's pocket holster ($10). You almost forget you are carrying it. Yes, you give up firepower but it is small and light enough to carry comfortably all day. Kahr makes a fine gun but it does not sound well suited to your situation.
 
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