I am shopping for my first AR-15 in .223/5.56 and have a couple of questions for anyone who cares to share their opinion. My use will be primarily for prairie dogs and coyotes. First, which manufacture makes the most accurate AR out of the box? Second, which manufacturer(s), besides Huldra, makes a piston-type operating system AR? Thanks for your feedback.
Two AR questions
- Thread starter rj7799
- Start date
Most accurate is probably, as Kraig said, a custom upper or something like a LaRue Stealth or a Noveske Varmint.
http://www.laruetactical.com/
http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?cat=110
http://www.laruetactical.com/
http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?cat=110
BPowderkeg
Moderator
MikeRussell
New member
In addition to those mentioned for accuracy...
Wilson Combat
AR15 Performance
Not up on all the piston driven uppers, don't see the need, so I can't help there
Wilson Combat
AR15 Performance
Not up on all the piston driven uppers, don't see the need, so I can't help there
wnycollector
New member
Rock River makes some very accurate AR's. With FGMM or Black Hills SMK's my RRA ATH will shoot MOA out to 300 yards.
kraigwy said:
Here's a nicely written summary on the workings of the AR DI Gas system. It'll explain how it works, and why it's gotten a reputation for a very accurate platform.
Couple this operating system with a match grade barrel, and it's hard to get much better accuracy.
Mrgunsngear
New member
I have a M&P PSX and it's a great rifle, but it's not the most accurate AR out there that's for sure. It would probably need a new trigger (mine was around 10lbs out of the box) and free floating the barrel wouldn't hurt it either. It's an awesome rifle for what's it's designed for though. Very reliable and clean shooting....
Accuracy is more dependent on the precision of the barrel manufacture, chamber, ammo, and then the ability of the operator to aim small - good optics.
Moving the piston from the carrier to out on the barrel fortunately doesn't seem to interfere, even tho it stresses the barrel and bends it as pressure works the action. On the other hand, it does nothing to make it better.
If you plan on spending money for piston to be an improvement, it's highly arguable and completely untested it will get you more accuracy. Considering all the other factors that get in the way, like the shooter's ability, you get more for your money with DI up front. Then, after a few years shooting it, make an experienced, informed choice. Right now, there's simply little evidence and a lot of conjecture.
It terms of money for performance, the difference in price could buy a complete reloading kit, and it does make an accuracy difference. It's mandatory to reload and develop a selected set of components assembled precisely for that particular gun to maximize accuracy. Money better spent.
Moving the piston from the carrier to out on the barrel fortunately doesn't seem to interfere, even tho it stresses the barrel and bends it as pressure works the action. On the other hand, it does nothing to make it better.
If you plan on spending money for piston to be an improvement, it's highly arguable and completely untested it will get you more accuracy. Considering all the other factors that get in the way, like the shooter's ability, you get more for your money with DI up front. Then, after a few years shooting it, make an experienced, informed choice. Right now, there's simply little evidence and a lot of conjecture.
It terms of money for performance, the difference in price could buy a complete reloading kit, and it does make an accuracy difference. It's mandatory to reload and develop a selected set of components assembled precisely for that particular gun to maximize accuracy. Money better spent.
tahunua001
New member
it's going to depend more highly on which ammo you use rather than which rifle you get. a lot of M&P 15 users like theirs and you'll never hear a Colt user admit that his isn't the most accurate rifle on the market. it'll depend on bullet construction, bullet weight, and rifle twist with trigger, handguard and buttstock coming in later down the line. I free floated the handguard on my DPMS Sportical and put in a RRA trigger and depending on ammo it hits SUB MOA out past 300 yards even with my sub par rifle skills.
stag, daniel defense, rock river arms, ruger and heckler and kock all make gas piston systems but in my opinion it is too much of a hassle and too expensive to justify unless you are the kind of guy that shoots 3000 rounds per outting and you do this several times a year. I've cleaned my DI AR twice since I got it and it's had about 800 rounds through it. piston systems aren't as necessary as some people seem to think.
stag, daniel defense, rock river arms, ruger and heckler and kock all make gas piston systems but in my opinion it is too much of a hassle and too expensive to justify unless you are the kind of guy that shoots 3000 rounds per outting and you do this several times a year. I've cleaned my DI AR twice since I got it and it's had about 800 rounds through it. piston systems aren't as necessary as some people seem to think.
I recently (after a tremendous amount of research) bought a LMT CQB MRP piston model AR15. I had narrowed my decision to the LMT or the LWRC and finaly chose the LMT due to a cost difference of about $500.
There are definitely many arguments for and against piston ARs, but I won't rehash them here... Make the choice based on your needs, wants, and preferences. If for no other reason than how easy it is to clean, I'd buy another piston. And the difference in price was about $335 for the piston over DI.
There are definitely many arguments for and against piston ARs, but I won't rehash them here... Make the choice based on your needs, wants, and preferences. If for no other reason than how easy it is to clean, I'd buy another piston. And the difference in price was about $335 for the piston over DI.
rj7799,
I think all the makers that are producing piston guns are decent. Like someone said before LWRCI makes a great piston gun. I have had a huldra for the past 8 months and love it. It is accurate and very reliable. I ran it through a 3 day carbine course(2000 rds) and no issues other than I caused a double feed by jamming a mag in too hard.
The Huldras are actually manufactured by Adams Arms out of Florida. 3 of my friends use them in 3 gun competitions and have had good luck.
If you want more info on the Huldra jump over to m4carbine.net and there is a lot of info on them.
I think all the makers that are producing piston guns are decent. Like someone said before LWRCI makes a great piston gun. I have had a huldra for the past 8 months and love it. It is accurate and very reliable. I ran it through a 3 day carbine course(2000 rds) and no issues other than I caused a double feed by jamming a mag in too hard.
The Huldras are actually manufactured by Adams Arms out of Florida. 3 of my friends use them in 3 gun competitions and have had good luck.
If you want more info on the Huldra jump over to m4carbine.net and there is a lot of info on them.
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Palmetto-Pride
New member
Piston ARs tend to be less accurate than DI ARs. This is probaly going to turn into a DI vs Piston thread real soon. Piston ARs have some advantages over DI, accuracy is not one of them.
I have heard that as well due to the piston causing vibration to the barrel. I have not noticed a difference between my Colt, Smith, and LMTs and the Huldra. I have about the same amount of rounds in all of them as the Huldra(3000 rd each gun).
I know what you mean about the DI vs piston debate. Not trying to get into one just giving my experience. I like both systems. Never had any issues with the DI system.
I know what you mean about the DI vs piston debate. Not trying to get into one just giving my experience. I like both systems. Never had any issues with the DI system.
BPowderkeg
Moderator
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this is pure BS ! i have pistons and DI's, i see no difference in accuracy, even IF you are shooting for half MOA groups, the original M16/AR and their imitators are made mostly for killing the enemy/home invaders at 500 yds. or LESS, it don't mater that the enemy is hit in the head when shooting for body mass, BUT most M16/AR's will hit body mass when aiming for it, which makes MOA, piston or DI irrelevant.., to the enemy/home invaders, dead is DEAD !!!
below is an example of some real crappy machining, i would like to know who made this mess ? whom ever posted that photo should be ashamed to allow us experienced AR "mechanics" to view such crap !
agree.., disagree ??
Palmetto-Pride
New member
The OP asked...............................................................................
I have both also and I would have to lean toward a DI system at least with my experience.
I own a Ruger piston gun and a DPMS gas gun and they both kill prariedogs and coyotes dead! If that is what you are using it for, it doesn't really matter which AR you buy. Spend what you can, and shoot those pesky critters all day!
If you want to unload 1000's of rounds in a weekend at paper and steel, spend more money for a higher end AR.
Simple!
If you want to unload 1000's of rounds in a weekend at paper and steel, spend more money for a higher end AR.
Simple!
BPowderkeg said:
I agree with Palmetto-Pride. The DI AR is inherently more accurate than the piston design. The strait lock up helps with that, I have no doubt. The real issue is does it matter to the shooter? For a battle rifle, it may not make any difference. For a match rifle, it DOES make a HUGE difference.
I don't recall the OP asking for opinions on a battle rifle, nor do I recall the op asking for opinions on a match rifle. He was asking for the Most Accurate out of the box, and that is the DI design.
As for the "crappy machining" does it really matter if it's a nicely finished cut away? Does it make the point, or does it not? It's not my picture, but I wonder what the value is of criticizing someone who is making an effort to educate folks who would really like to see how the workings of Eugene Stoner's design works because it's not a nicely finished show piece.
Two different types of hunting. And while you could use an AR for either it might not be the best rifle for both. What range are you planning on doing this hunting at???
Most hunters will try to call in a coyote to 150 yards or less to shoot. Most prairie dog hunters will like 200 to 300 yard shots, just to see how well they can do at that range. Coyotes require stealth where prairie dogs do not. As to accuracy that will be needed for the little guys at 300 yards or better, and only one or two min of accuracy for coyotes is all that is needed. (larger target to shoot at)
If it must be an AR then consider these.
Two stage trigger, 24 inch barrel, 1:9 twist, national match chamber in 223:
For coyotes any decent shooting light weight AR will do.
But if it's for both than a Savage bolt action will do very well
Jim
madcratebuilder
New member
Most reputable AR manufacturers make a varmint version that is very accurate. Two stand out from my experience, White Oak and Noveske. Most shooters well not be able to tell the difference. Same with DI vs Piston, DI should be more accurate, no moving parts on the barrel, but most well not see any difference. You run out of shooter before you run out of rifle.
