Labgrade: I have run into a situation where the driver was armed legally. Traffic infraction = 81 in 55 mph zone. Driver states to me that he has a loaded weapon inside his vehicle. [first thing he says to me] I instruct him on what his actions should be from that point. In this case, i want his drivers license, copy of CCW, and location of weapon inside his vehicle. He complies and we go from that point, he has no record, he is the owner of the vehice, and has complied with all my verbal commands. Bottom line = my stop = my rules. When the person you have stopped; [for any reason] starts dictating terms or controls your actions on a vehicle stop = YOU LOSE. In this case here i never saw or handeled the weapon, but i knew one was there and acted accordinly. The person in this case got a verbal warning for his speed infraction and released. Vehicle stops are like fingerprints no two are alike and each should be looked at for its own merits.
turning firearm to Peace Officer on traffic stop = Part 2
- Thread starter 12-34hom
- Start date
You`re absolutely correct. The cop who makes the stop is in charge. Even if it`s an off duty or retired LEO. In NYC we didn`t have too many CCW holders as most of you know so the point is fairly moot. We have had cops who when they got in their cars just toss the gun on the seat next to them. That can get pretty exciting on a car stop!
I`ve stopped many a car with out of state plates and maybe the guy has his family with him, maybe not. For some reason "furriners" think NYC is dangerous. We`re not stupid. If the guy, or gal has their paperwork, isn`t acting like a jerk and it`s turned out to be just a traffic infraction, my policy was always "don`t ask, don`t tell." I`ve found most out of staters to be fairly polite and since we had plenty of homegrown idiots, I`d usually just warn them to be more careful.
In Pa. where I live now as far as I know, there`s no requirement to tell the LEO that you`re armed. I also think the less the gun is handled, the better. Again, this is on a routine stop, not a p***ing contest. An otherwise law abiding citizen who gives a cop on a traffic stop a ration of **** is just asking for trouble.
I`ve stopped many a car with out of state plates and maybe the guy has his family with him, maybe not. For some reason "furriners" think NYC is dangerous. We`re not stupid. If the guy, or gal has their paperwork, isn`t acting like a jerk and it`s turned out to be just a traffic infraction, my policy was always "don`t ask, don`t tell." I`ve found most out of staters to be fairly polite and since we had plenty of homegrown idiots, I`d usually just warn them to be more careful.
In Pa. where I live now as far as I know, there`s no requirement to tell the LEO that you`re armed. I also think the less the gun is handled, the better. Again, this is on a routine stop, not a p***ing contest. An otherwise law abiding citizen who gives a cop on a traffic stop a ration of **** is just asking for trouble.
There have been 4 times when I was stopped while armed. I don't mean while carrying arms in the car, I mean with a loaded weapon in immediate reach.
Each time the first words out of my mouth were, "Officer, I am armed".
My getting pulled over posture is, As soon as they light-up on my and its obvious it's me their after, I hit the 4-ways, I slow and pull off the road as far as feasable to minimize the cops exposure to passing traffic, turn on my dome light so the cop has a good view of the cab, kill my headlights, (leaving 4 ways on) kill the ignition and toss the keys on the dashboard and roll down the window, yank my little packet with DL, insurance card and registration from its place on my visor, place it on the dashboard, then place my hands palm down, fingers extended on the top of the steering wheel.
Then I wait. It usually goes well.
In those 4 times I mentioned. The cops seemed pretty unconcerned, Aside from the fact that they represented different states, all of them unsnapped their duty holsters before they asked where the weapon was. Once they were verbally directed to the weapons location, (it was visible) the rest of the traffic stop went on normally.
Each time the first words out of my mouth were, "Officer, I am armed".
My getting pulled over posture is, As soon as they light-up on my and its obvious it's me their after, I hit the 4-ways, I slow and pull off the road as far as feasable to minimize the cops exposure to passing traffic, turn on my dome light so the cop has a good view of the cab, kill my headlights, (leaving 4 ways on) kill the ignition and toss the keys on the dashboard and roll down the window, yank my little packet with DL, insurance card and registration from its place on my visor, place it on the dashboard, then place my hands palm down, fingers extended on the top of the steering wheel.
Then I wait. It usually goes well.
In those 4 times I mentioned. The cops seemed pretty unconcerned, Aside from the fact that they represented different states, all of them unsnapped their duty holsters before they asked where the weapon was. Once they were verbally directed to the weapons location, (it was visible) the rest of the traffic stop went on normally.
Zip for flames here to these last three in "new" thread, & I agree, LEO "owns" the situations.
I was always most polite even when I was doing the stops.
Curious how you'd have my "cocked/locked BHP in IWB" (farside from LEO) delivered if you wanted it.
& knowing that lots of LEO (again, no flame - more observation) aren't properly trained, I'd just as soon dump mag, rack slide BEFORE handing it over (just for safety's sake for ALL concerned). Seems that if I wasn't at gunpoint, the whole idea of disarming me would be mute. If I draw (s-l-o-w-l-y) to empty pistol & LEO's standing there giving orders, what's the point?
I was always most polite even when I was doing the stops.
Curious how you'd have my "cocked/locked BHP in IWB" (farside from LEO) delivered if you wanted it.
& knowing that lots of LEO (again, no flame - more observation) aren't properly trained, I'd just as soon dump mag, rack slide BEFORE handing it over (just for safety's sake for ALL concerned). Seems that if I wasn't at gunpoint, the whole idea of disarming me would be mute. If I draw (s-l-o-w-l-y) to empty pistol & LEO's standing there giving orders, what's the point?
Trigger Jerk
New member
I was pulled over a couple of years ago coming back from a cowboy shoot. I had two long guns in the window rack and 8-10 others in various cases around the interior. The first thing the officer asked me was if I had any other firearms in the vehicle (other than the obvious ones in the rack)? My answer was "I have a ****load of guns in the pickup" He then asked where they were located. After I said there were some behind me, some underneath me, saome next to me, and I may have mised one or two, he asked if I knew why he pulled me over. I said cause I was going 55 in a 45? He said that I was right, and then we talked about cowboy shooting some, I even showed him some pictures I had with me. Then he said have a nice day and watch the speed. He never asked for DL, insurance, registration, or anything. Do you think it had anything to do with the fact that I graduated High School with him 20 years earlier? Probably, since we were friends then but just drifted apart through the years. He knew I was into firearms way back then.
jensenfarm
New member
I've got a really good friend on the local PD, who is in a specialized unit that answers nothing but "hot calls" & serves felony warrants.
After one 10 hour swing shift that turned into 13 hours, he was driving home on an empty (or so he thought) freeway.
Suddenly the interior lit up from behind (CHP had been stalking him while blacked out), and he pulled over.
As the CHP walked up to the window, my friend stated he was off duty LEO, and there was a weapon in the car. Asked officer how he'd like to proceed.
Officer asked where the weapon and shield were, and he indicated the gym bag next to him on the passenger seat. CHP asked him to retrieve his badge and license, while unsnapping his holster.
After that, a few pleasantries were exchanged, and the CHP asked him to try and keep the speed down to at least 10 mph over the limit
.
IMHO, this is also the best way to handle a traffic stop for CCW holders (at least those of us who are not required to hand over our permit at the onset of a stop). Makes sure there are no surprises, and lets the LEO dictate the situation wherein he feels most at ease.
After one 10 hour swing shift that turned into 13 hours, he was driving home on an empty (or so he thought) freeway.
Suddenly the interior lit up from behind (CHP had been stalking him while blacked out), and he pulled over.
As the CHP walked up to the window, my friend stated he was off duty LEO, and there was a weapon in the car. Asked officer how he'd like to proceed.
Officer asked where the weapon and shield were, and he indicated the gym bag next to him on the passenger seat. CHP asked him to retrieve his badge and license, while unsnapping his holster.
After that, a few pleasantries were exchanged, and the CHP asked him to try and keep the speed down to at least 10 mph over the limit
.IMHO, this is also the best way to handle a traffic stop for CCW holders (at least those of us who are not required to hand over our permit at the onset of a stop). Makes sure there are no surprises, and lets the LEO dictate the situation wherein he feels most at ease.
Absolutely! jensenfarm. Last thing I want is any suprises ('cept that I was just 1M customer at fave gun shop & get 1 hr to take my picks - the shopping cart give-away!) ....
I'm only curious as to how (why would I?) be disarmed if all I did was speeding or similar traffic infraction. I'm always most polite in such scenarios (even though I haven't been pulled over in 20+ yrs).
Nothing I would do to warrant disarming me ('less to an antsy-type) & as far as the "how to" still leaves me somewhat confused. Still thinking about safety to me & that of the LEO.
Tangent - we = hippy-types, driving to a concert in Miami ~'73-4 (bad time to be in that town - lotsa drugs fueled the city) in a van. We were pulled over. Turned out LEO went to high school with driver. Chatted re old times for a few. Turned out we were pulled over because LEO "thought I had turned to a lady in the back & said "there's a cop - hide the papers."" No kidding. That was the sole reason for the stop. That was before I was LEO & we did hate them at the time. I was pulled over & vehicle ransacked probably 3X a week for quite some time (months?). Never a citation - just the stops, searches & fU! by the LEOs.
Yes, I have changed my attitudes over the years. Still, I have this attitude towards unwarranted stops, searches, et al. Something about the BoRs, I guess. I wouldn't infringe upon someone else & expect the same courtesy.
Darn, something musta touched a chord ....
I'm only curious as to how (why would I?) be disarmed if all I did was speeding or similar traffic infraction. I'm always most polite in such scenarios (even though I haven't been pulled over in 20+ yrs).
Nothing I would do to warrant disarming me ('less to an antsy-type) & as far as the "how to" still leaves me somewhat confused. Still thinking about safety to me & that of the LEO.
Tangent - we = hippy-types, driving to a concert in Miami ~'73-4 (bad time to be in that town - lotsa drugs fueled the city) in a van. We were pulled over. Turned out LEO went to high school with driver. Chatted re old times for a few. Turned out we were pulled over because LEO "thought I had turned to a lady in the back & said "there's a cop - hide the papers."" No kidding. That was the sole reason for the stop. That was before I was LEO & we did hate them at the time. I was pulled over & vehicle ransacked probably 3X a week for quite some time (months?). Never a citation - just the stops, searches & fU! by the LEOs.
Yes, I have changed my attitudes over the years. Still, I have this attitude towards unwarranted stops, searches, et al. Something about the BoRs, I guess. I wouldn't infringe upon someone else & expect the same courtesy.
Darn, something musta touched a chord ....
Ive posted this in the past but ill shorten it....two military types leaving school at San Angelo texas goin home to Elpaso, Im driving the other guys truck, I go past the off ramp for gas in the middle of no where...I look around see no one back up and suddenly there is a very big tx state cop behind us...he gets out ,,,tells us to get out, asks for registration etc, owner reaches in glove box and loaded mdl mdl 19 21/2 barrel falls on glove box door. Leo tells us to get down in the ditch away from the car, takes out the paper work he wants runs numbers comes back wishes us a nice day and takes off........Im glad he handled it that way....did I mention we were polite...lol..fubsy.
John G. Lapin
Inactive
I was stoped for speeding in a nearby village, 48 in a 35 (I thought it was a 45 zone). Anyway, I had my Redhawk under the seat on the driveshaft tunnel, in its holster and the grip visible from the driver's seat. When the policeman came to the window we exchanged the usual. It never occured to me to mention that revolver or the SKS under the back seat. It is legal to carry loaded and concealed inside a motor vehicle in my state (New Mexico). As I think about it, it seems that declaring myslef to have a gun would just make things more tense. Should I have said something?
John, I would have. If nothing else - as a courtesy to the LEO.
If it's legal, I don't have any problems with stating what I have on my possession (fact is, I'm required to by issuing CCW authority). If I'd give up my CCW, I can still CCW legally while driving in CO & wouldn't be legally required to tell. Go figure. I probably still would tho'.
Since issued, I've had 3X LEO contacts while carrying. 2X county Sheriffs & 1X Game Warden. None had a problem & zip hassles. One Sheriff was very curious as he'd never seen the license before - the resultant talk kinda was a fact-finding mission for him. Talked my ear off.
& that's OK by me - I like the good guys of all "colors."
Don't care for snotty LEOs (very rare except when I was one & saw what they did to "the people") OR snotty folks of any sort. We can all excercise our rights & be nice 'n polite to each other. (kum-ba-ya tune starts here)
However & again - having been "the guy with the stick" upon a time, I can most assuredly relate to the LEO's perspective.
It's so tough being torn on an issue ....
If it's legal, I don't have any problems with stating what I have on my possession (fact is, I'm required to by issuing CCW authority). If I'd give up my CCW, I can still CCW legally while driving in CO & wouldn't be legally required to tell. Go figure. I probably still would tho'.
Since issued, I've had 3X LEO contacts while carrying. 2X county Sheriffs & 1X Game Warden. None had a problem & zip hassles. One Sheriff was very curious as he'd never seen the license before - the resultant talk kinda was a fact-finding mission for him. Talked my ear off.
& that's OK by me - I like the good guys of all "colors."Don't care for snotty LEOs (very rare except when I was one & saw what they did to "the people") OR snotty folks of any sort. We can all excercise our rights & be nice 'n polite to each other. (kum-ba-ya tune starts here
) However & again - having been "the guy with the stick" upon a time, I can most assuredly relate to the LEO's perspective.
It's so tough being torn on an issue ....
I have a question.
How do I resolve the following facts that seem to contradict each other?
1) Concealed Weapon Permit holder referred me to a list of rules. One of which states that under no circumstance should the permit holder brandish his weapon except in self defense. Another of which states that the permit holder should let NO ONE know that he carries a concealed weapon.
2) Common sense and courtesey dictates that required by law or not, an armed person should advise the attending leo of the presence of the weapon IF the leo will see the weapon.
why, why?
How do I resolve the following facts that seem to contradict each other?
1) Concealed Weapon Permit holder referred me to a list of rules. One of which states that under no circumstance should the permit holder brandish his weapon except in self defense. Another of which states that the permit holder should let NO ONE know that he carries a concealed weapon.
2) Common sense and courtesey dictates that required by law or not, an armed person should advise the attending leo of the presence of the weapon IF the leo will see the weapon.
why, why?
Y'all, like my other fellow Texans have said,
If you are pulled over in Texas, here's what to expect (Pulled from the Texas DPS Website):
Traveling on Texas Roadways with Concealed Handguns
Traffic stop policies vary among law enforcement agencies. Your local police department or sheriff's office can tell you what to expect if stopped while carrying a handgun within their jurisdictions.
Texas Department of Public Safety troopers will ask you:
Whether you are licensed to carry a concealed handgun
Whether you have the gun with you
Where the gun is located
A trooper may disarm a licensee anytime he or she feels that safety is at risk. The trooper will return the gun at the end of the traffic stop when the threat to safety has passed.
When stopped by a law enforcement officer, DPS recommends that you:
Keep your hands in plain sight
Cooperate fully with the police officer
If you have a gun with you, tell the officer as soon as possible
Don't make any quick movements, especially toward the weapon
At night, turn on your vehicle's dome light
If in doubt, remember what hopefully you were thought when you were a kid, to always be polite, and answer every question with a Yes Sir, Yes M'am, No Sir, No M'am...
Y'all be safe...
Cowboy
[This message has been edited by Cowboy (edited February 15, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Cowboy (edited February 15, 2000).]
If you are pulled over in Texas, here's what to expect (Pulled from the Texas DPS Website):
Traveling on Texas Roadways with Concealed Handguns
Traffic stop policies vary among law enforcement agencies. Your local police department or sheriff's office can tell you what to expect if stopped while carrying a handgun within their jurisdictions.
Texas Department of Public Safety troopers will ask you:
Whether you are licensed to carry a concealed handgun
Whether you have the gun with you
Where the gun is located
A trooper may disarm a licensee anytime he or she feels that safety is at risk. The trooper will return the gun at the end of the traffic stop when the threat to safety has passed.
When stopped by a law enforcement officer, DPS recommends that you:
Keep your hands in plain sight
Cooperate fully with the police officer
If you have a gun with you, tell the officer as soon as possible
Don't make any quick movements, especially toward the weapon
At night, turn on your vehicle's dome light
If in doubt, remember what hopefully you were thought when you were a kid, to always be polite, and answer every question with a Yes Sir, Yes M'am, No Sir, No M'am...
Y'all be safe...
Cowboy
[This message has been edited by Cowboy (edited February 15, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Cowboy (edited February 15, 2000).]
jensenfarm
New member
Out here in CA, especially in the not-so-better parts of towns, LEO's commonly ride double. If not, then they usually have a partner in another cruiser nearby, who may be heading towards where you and your vehicle have been stopped.
One officer approaches the driver's side, while the other assumes a defensive posture towards the right rear, all the while watching for anything that might trip his senses.
There is one word in the LE vocabulary that gets an instantaneous response: "GUN!!!"
If you have neglected to mention that hawgleg on your waistband as you reach for your wallet, and if that shirt rides up just a mite over those grips, and is spotted by either LEO, you have a 95% probability rate of having some very unpleasant things occur in short order!
I haven't had a cite in over 15 years, but whether the state statutes required it or not, I'll always inform an officer at the beginning of the stop that I am armed, and where the weapon is located. After that- it's his call.
If he has some reason to request my weapon, and chooses to remove the magazine (and all the rounds from the mag as well...after all, I got 2 more on the off side anyways!), so be it.
I really don't give a hoot what he thinks 2 seconds after the stop is completed, and it ain't a matter of "Who's in charge?" or machismo/bravado....it's called preventative maintenance!
In a previous post, I mentioned my friend the LEO who was stopped on his way home, and how he handled that stop. I've since spoken to several others who agree this is the safest response for all parties. I figure what's good enough for them is good enough for me!
One officer approaches the driver's side, while the other assumes a defensive posture towards the right rear, all the while watching for anything that might trip his senses.
There is one word in the LE vocabulary that gets an instantaneous response: "GUN!!!"
If you have neglected to mention that hawgleg on your waistband as you reach for your wallet, and if that shirt rides up just a mite over those grips, and is spotted by either LEO, you have a 95% probability rate of having some very unpleasant things occur in short order!
I haven't had a cite in over 15 years, but whether the state statutes required it or not, I'll always inform an officer at the beginning of the stop that I am armed, and where the weapon is located. After that- it's his call.
If he has some reason to request my weapon, and chooses to remove the magazine (and all the rounds from the mag as well...after all, I got 2 more on the off side anyways!), so be it.
I really don't give a hoot what he thinks 2 seconds after the stop is completed, and it ain't a matter of "Who's in charge?" or machismo/bravado....it's called preventative maintenance!
In a previous post, I mentioned my friend the LEO who was stopped on his way home, and how he handled that stop. I've since spoken to several others who agree this is the safest response for all parties. I figure what's good enough for them is good enough for me!
I like the Texas recommendations
because they go a long way in
reducing the "pucker factor". If you
find yourself looking at the
flashing reds in your rearview, you
can reduce his anxiety by acting
like a cop. Cops are pretty much
driven by fear and ego. If you can
reduce his fear and maybe boost his
ego at the same time, you might have
a more pleasant traffic stop than
you expect. Remember, you know he`s
a cop. He don`t know you from Adam.
Assume you`re speeding on a major
highway and the cop gets a fix on
you going in the opposite direction.
You`re doing 85 and he`s doing 70.
That`s 155 mph. By the time he finds
a turn around and you`re still going
85, he`s got a lot of ground to make
up so now he`s doing what? 110? 120?
That raises his fear level quite a
bit. If you see him and you think
he`s going tocome after you, slow
down. If you`re in the left lane
passing someone and you see him
behind you, don`t jam on the brakes
to pull over. Now you scared the
spit out of him. Continue the pass
safely while signalling with your
hand that you see him. When it`s
safe, pull as far to the right as
possible on the shoulder. If he
pulls next to you, ignoring him
won`t make him disappear. make eye
contact to see what he wants you to
do. Once stopped, Roll down your
window, all windows if your glass is
heavily tinted, turn on the interior
lights at night, put out your
cigarette in the ashtray, not out
the window, and leave your hands on
the wheel. Put the car in park so he
can see your backup lights flash and
if it`s not real cold, shut off the
motor. Some off duty cops will take
the keys out of the ignition and
place them on the roof. Take off
your mirrored sunglasses so he can
see your eyes. What you`re doing is
showing him that even though you
made his heart pound by chasing you,
you`re doing your best to lower his
fear. If you don`t know who he is,
look in your rearview to see what
dep`t he`s from. When he opens his
door you might be able to see the
logo on the door. It`s better to
call him by his correct title than
make a mistake. Sometimes inter
dep`t rivalries exist. Calling a
trooper "deputy" or vice versa might
annoy him. Try to look at his patch.
Some are very distinctive and will
give you a clue. If he`s got two
stripes, call him corporal. Three
stripes, sergeant. Officer is ok but
"yes sir, no sir" repeatedly sounds
phoney. You`re feeding his ego sure,
but it`s better than feeding your
money into the pit. Now that you`ve
eased his "pucker level" you might
be able to get out of that speeding
ticket you so richly deserve. That`s
a victory worth bragging to your
friends about.
I would only tell him about the
gun(s) if he asks or he`s going to
see it but that`s me. There`s no
requirement in Pa., but every state
is different. I`ll tell him I`m a
retired cop, but he`s under no
obligation not to write me, and
he`ll probably assume I`m armed.
Some guys are humps, and if he is,
don`t give him an excuse to be more
of one than he already is. You have
all kinds of rights, and if you act
like you do, you`ll probably find
yourself needing them.
Sorry for the long post but there`s
a lot of non LEO`s here. By the same
token, there`s a lot of fish out on
the road. You might be one that gets
thrown back.
because they go a long way in
reducing the "pucker factor". If you
find yourself looking at the
flashing reds in your rearview, you
can reduce his anxiety by acting
like a cop. Cops are pretty much
driven by fear and ego. If you can
reduce his fear and maybe boost his
ego at the same time, you might have
a more pleasant traffic stop than
you expect. Remember, you know he`s
a cop. He don`t know you from Adam.
Assume you`re speeding on a major
highway and the cop gets a fix on
you going in the opposite direction.
You`re doing 85 and he`s doing 70.
That`s 155 mph. By the time he finds
a turn around and you`re still going
85, he`s got a lot of ground to make
up so now he`s doing what? 110? 120?
That raises his fear level quite a
bit. If you see him and you think
he`s going tocome after you, slow
down. If you`re in the left lane
passing someone and you see him
behind you, don`t jam on the brakes
to pull over. Now you scared the
spit out of him. Continue the pass
safely while signalling with your
hand that you see him. When it`s
safe, pull as far to the right as
possible on the shoulder. If he
pulls next to you, ignoring him
won`t make him disappear. make eye
contact to see what he wants you to
do. Once stopped, Roll down your
window, all windows if your glass is
heavily tinted, turn on the interior
lights at night, put out your
cigarette in the ashtray, not out
the window, and leave your hands on
the wheel. Put the car in park so he
can see your backup lights flash and
if it`s not real cold, shut off the
motor. Some off duty cops will take
the keys out of the ignition and
place them on the roof. Take off
your mirrored sunglasses so he can
see your eyes. What you`re doing is
showing him that even though you
made his heart pound by chasing you,
you`re doing your best to lower his
fear. If you don`t know who he is,
look in your rearview to see what
dep`t he`s from. When he opens his
door you might be able to see the
logo on the door. It`s better to
call him by his correct title than
make a mistake. Sometimes inter
dep`t rivalries exist. Calling a
trooper "deputy" or vice versa might
annoy him. Try to look at his patch.
Some are very distinctive and will
give you a clue. If he`s got two
stripes, call him corporal. Three
stripes, sergeant. Officer is ok but
"yes sir, no sir" repeatedly sounds
phoney. You`re feeding his ego sure,
but it`s better than feeding your
money into the pit. Now that you`ve
eased his "pucker level" you might
be able to get out of that speeding
ticket you so richly deserve. That`s
a victory worth bragging to your
friends about.
I would only tell him about the
gun(s) if he asks or he`s going to
see it but that`s me. There`s no
requirement in Pa., but every state
is different. I`ll tell him I`m a
retired cop, but he`s under no
obligation not to write me, and
he`ll probably assume I`m armed.
Some guys are humps, and if he is,
don`t give him an excuse to be more
of one than he already is. You have
all kinds of rights, and if you act
like you do, you`ll probably find
yourself needing them.
Sorry for the long post but there`s
a lot of non LEO`s here. By the same
token, there`s a lot of fish out on
the road. You might be one that gets
thrown back.
As stated previously, Texas state law mandates that Concealed Handgun License holders must inform a law enforcement officer IF they are packin’ when he/she asks for identification. The law is specifically worded LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR JUDGE. If you are not packin’, no further action is required. However, a drivers license check will inform the LE that you have a CHL permit to carry.
Question #1: Is a game warden considered a true law enforcement officer under this law? (Kindly offer specific references.)
Question #2: Is a military policeman, on a federal reservation, considered a law enforcement officer under this law? (I already realize that carrying on a federal reservation is prohibited.)
Skyhawk
Question #1: Is a game warden considered a true law enforcement officer under this law? (Kindly offer specific references.)
Question #2: Is a military policeman, on a federal reservation, considered a law enforcement officer under this law? (I already realize that carrying on a federal reservation is prohibited.)
Skyhawk
Paul Revere
New member
I understand what most CHL/CCW license holders are "obligated" to do in a traffic stop. I also understand what LEOs expect from them when they are pulled over. But what about the other 19 states that do not allow their "subjects" to carry arms? And what about the people (in the 31 states that allow their "subjects" to carry) that have rejected the idea of obtaining a license to exercise their freedoms, and do so (carry)anyway?
To my knowledge, a person's vehicle is their personal property, including its contents. Unreasonable search and seizure of such personal property violates a person's 4th Amendment rights.
So if a person is pulled over for no other reason than a traffic violation, headlight or tail light out, etc., what grounds would an LEO have to search that person's vehicle? (assuming the person has a clean record and isn't intoxicated or drugged up).
Because, I would think that the number one reason that an American citizen would be carrying a weapon in the first place, would be to augment the absence of an LEO when confronted by a criminal who poses a threat...not to use the weapon on an LEO!!! So if this person, who may have a gun tucked under her seat, or in her handbag, just treats the traffic stop as such, providing DL, insurance card, and vehicle registration to the LEO, why would the LEO want to take the stop any further than writing the person a traffic ticket? See the point?
To my knowledge, a person's vehicle is their personal property, including its contents. Unreasonable search and seizure of such personal property violates a person's 4th Amendment rights.
So if a person is pulled over for no other reason than a traffic violation, headlight or tail light out, etc., what grounds would an LEO have to search that person's vehicle? (assuming the person has a clean record and isn't intoxicated or drugged up).
Because, I would think that the number one reason that an American citizen would be carrying a weapon in the first place, would be to augment the absence of an LEO when confronted by a criminal who poses a threat...not to use the weapon on an LEO!!! So if this person, who may have a gun tucked under her seat, or in her handbag, just treats the traffic stop as such, providing DL, insurance card, and vehicle registration to the LEO, why would the LEO want to take the stop any further than writing the person a traffic ticket? See the point?
Okay--Game Warden question. The below quote is from the Texas Code of Criminal Procedure, Article 2.12
The following are peace officers:
(1) sheriffs and their deputies;
(2) constables and deputy constables;
(3) marshals or police officers of an incorporated city, town,
or village;
(4) rangers and officers commissioned by the Public Safety
Commission and the Director of the Department of Public Safety;
(5) investigators of the district attorneys', criminal district
attorneys', and county attorneys' offices;
(6) law enforcement agents of the Texas Alcoholic Beverage
Commission;
(7) each member of an arson investigating unit commissioned by
a city, a county, or the state;
(8) officers commissioned under Section 37.081, Education Code,
or Subchapter E, Chapter 51, Education Code;
(9) officers commissioned by the General Services Commission;
(10) law enforcement officers commissioned by the Parks and
Wildlife Commission;
(11) airport police officers commissioned by a city with a
population of more than one million, according to the most recent
federal census, that operates an airport that serves commercial
air carriers;
(12) airport security personnel commissioned as peace officers
by the governing body of any political subdivision of this state,
other than a city described by Subdivision (11), that operates an
airport that serves commercial air carriers;
(13) municipal park and recreational patrolmen and security
officers;
(14) security officers commissioned as peace officers by the
comptroller;
(15) officers commissioned by a water control and improvement
district under Section 49.216, Water Code;
(16) officers commissioned by a board of trustees under Chapter
341, Acts of the 57th Legislature, Regular Session, 1961 (Article
1187f, Vernon's Texas Civil Statutes);
(17) investigators commissioned by the Texas State Board of
Medical Examiners;
(18) officers commissioned by the board of managers of the
Dallas County Hospital District, the Tarrant County Hospital
District, or the Bexar County Hospital District under Section
281.057, Health and Safety Code;
(19) county park rangers commissioned under Subchapter E,
Chapter 351, Local Government Code;
(20) investigators employed by the Texas Racing Commission;
(21) officers commissioned by the State Board of Pharmacy;
(22) officers commissioned by the governing body of a
metropolitan rapid transit authority under Section 451.108,
Transportation Code, or by a regional transportation authority
under Section 452.110, Transportation Code;
(23) investigators commissioned by the attorney general under
Section 402.009, Government Code;
(24) security officers and investigators commissioned as peace
officers under Chapter 466, Government Code;
(25) an officer employed by the Texas Department of Health
under Section 431.2471, Health and Safety Code;
(26) officers appointed by an appellate court under Subchapter
F, Chapter 53, Government Code;
(27) officers commissioned by the state fire marshal under
Chapter 417, Government Code;
(28) an investigator commissioned by the commissioner of
insurance under Article 1.10D, Insurance Code; and
(29) apprehension specialists commissioned by the Texas Youth
Commission as officers under Section 61.0931, Human Resources
Code.
I've highlighted the part concerning Game Wardens.
What I find interesting is who isn't on this list.
I'll give you a hint: you find them in alphabet soup.
LawDog
The following are peace officers:
(1) sheriffs and their deputies;
(2) constables and deputy constables;
(3) marshals or police officers of an incorporated city, town,
or village;
(4) rangers and officers commissioned by the Public Safety
Commission and the Director of the Department of Public Safety;
(5) investigators of the district attorneys', criminal district
attorneys', and county attorneys' offices;
(6) law enforcement agents of the Texas Alcoholic Beverage
Commission;
(7) each member of an arson investigating unit commissioned by
a city, a county, or the state;
(8) officers commissioned under Section 37.081, Education Code,
or Subchapter E, Chapter 51, Education Code;
(9) officers commissioned by the General Services Commission;
(10) law enforcement officers commissioned by the Parks and
Wildlife Commission;
(11) airport police officers commissioned by a city with a
population of more than one million, according to the most recent
federal census, that operates an airport that serves commercial
air carriers;
(12) airport security personnel commissioned as peace officers
by the governing body of any political subdivision of this state,
other than a city described by Subdivision (11), that operates an
airport that serves commercial air carriers;
(13) municipal park and recreational patrolmen and security
officers;
(14) security officers commissioned as peace officers by the
comptroller;
(15) officers commissioned by a water control and improvement
district under Section 49.216, Water Code;
(16) officers commissioned by a board of trustees under Chapter
341, Acts of the 57th Legislature, Regular Session, 1961 (Article
1187f, Vernon's Texas Civil Statutes);
(17) investigators commissioned by the Texas State Board of
Medical Examiners;
(18) officers commissioned by the board of managers of the
Dallas County Hospital District, the Tarrant County Hospital
District, or the Bexar County Hospital District under Section
281.057, Health and Safety Code;
(19) county park rangers commissioned under Subchapter E,
Chapter 351, Local Government Code;
(20) investigators employed by the Texas Racing Commission;
(21) officers commissioned by the State Board of Pharmacy;
(22) officers commissioned by the governing body of a
metropolitan rapid transit authority under Section 451.108,
Transportation Code, or by a regional transportation authority
under Section 452.110, Transportation Code;
(23) investigators commissioned by the attorney general under
Section 402.009, Government Code;
(24) security officers and investigators commissioned as peace
officers under Chapter 466, Government Code;
(25) an officer employed by the Texas Department of Health
under Section 431.2471, Health and Safety Code;
(26) officers appointed by an appellate court under Subchapter
F, Chapter 53, Government Code;
(27) officers commissioned by the state fire marshal under
Chapter 417, Government Code;
(28) an investigator commissioned by the commissioner of
insurance under Article 1.10D, Insurance Code; and
(29) apprehension specialists commissioned by the Texas Youth
Commission as officers under Section 61.0931, Human Resources
Code.
I've highlighted the part concerning Game Wardens.
What I find interesting is who isn't on this list.
I'll give you a hint: you find them in alphabet soup.
LawDog