Tungsten Super Shot For Deer And Hog - Expanding The Definition of Buckshot.

[DockRock]

I am firmly in the camp of "I would rather use slugs or rifle bullets than buck, if possible". "If possible" is an important consideration because I used to live in Sweden and there were areas where only buck was allowed. In my experience, a confident hunter would never take a good shot beyond 50 meters (@55 yards) and 40 meters would be a more common self-imposed limit.

I hunt no terrain where I would choose buck over slugs, but it may exist somewhere.

But for the purposes of the discussion, let us assume that either to comply with a legal requirement or because of some strategy or tactic, buck is to be employed to hunt deer. Given the cost of Tungsten, the only reason to use it would be to increase the range of lethality. It can pattern better than lead, but wants some experimenting with choke based on my experience with TSS and Turkey loads.

So, if I were forced to, or had some reason I can't currently identify, to use 00 buck for deer, and I were confident with it to say, 60 yards (which I'm not), the only reason I would be interested in Tungsten would be if it gave me the ability to confidently reach out to 80 yards. Vastly increased cost to diminish shot size so that I could shoot deer at 60 yards with $10 a pop BB Tungsten makes no sense to me. Confident lethality at 80 yards with #4 Buck Tungsten might.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

It appears that TSS shot as small as #2 (.15") is now considered a viable pellet size for deer and hog hunting.

Translation: A company is marketing it and got a few folks to try it and they managed to make some kills. The company wants folks to consider it to be viable for hunting so they say it is now considered viable.

For example, this is one of those non-helpful sorts of product endorsements that sounds really good, but there isn't any information there that actually helps a consumer wanting to buy the product know how well it might be working...

"I've shot five times with it this year and dropped every animal," Cavin said. "I haven't shot an animal that has moved, yet. It's been from 15 to 45 yards."

Four of those animals have been hogs, and one was a sow weighing more than 150 pounds he shot at 45 yards. He also tried the No. 2s on a deer.

"I killed a doe with it about a month ago," Cavin said. "She was at 40 yards and the pellets went all the way through.

"Typically, when you kill a big game animal with a shotgun you're talking 00 buckshot, not No. 2s. It's changed the game, for sure."

I am going to play the interpretation game here to show how his statements may be 100% true and yet reflect something different. Looks like he shot 4 medium-sized and smaller hogs, the largest being less than 160 lbs by his guesstimate because he probably didn't actually measure any in the field, so the number may be inflated. Most were probably shot at very close range though he killed at 45 yards (again, probably guess distance, not actually measured).

Shots could have been head shots on the hogs, who knows? Nothing about the description tells use much on shot placement. Take the doe where the pellets passed completely through. If that is a neck shot, you are talking 2-5" of penetration is all, which is nothing remarkable.

There is the real possibility that he shot the sow and she went down, and then he managed to shoot 3 of her piglets as he walked up on her. This scenario would fit what he says, but if true, would totally change the context of what he said.

I have to wonder if he has only shot at game 5 times or that 5 times is the number of times he had DRT kills. He may have shot 10 times and had 5 more animals that ran off.

And who is this random hunter the news decided to interview? Is he just a happy Apex ammo customer? No. He may be a happy user, but may not even be a customer and he may be very biased because he profits from the sale of Apex Ammo. Danial Cavin of Vidalia, MS is a hunter and looking at his FB page, he doesn't just live and work in Mississippi as the article notes.

https://www.facebook.com/daniel.cavin.1

While it would appear that he does do a decent amount of hunting, it also indicates that he is directly involved in selling hunting gear and this ammunition in particular. He works for Sports Center, Inc. in Natchez, MS. Sports Center, Inc. is a small Mississippi chain of sporting goods stores that markets Apex Ammunition. In fact, he puts a lot of their ads on his personal FB page! Here is their website. You can search it and see that they sell the ammo...
https://soprogear.com/

The ammo may work okay. I don't know. What I do know is that there is no reason to believe anything in the article is 100% as it seems simply because there is an undisclosed for profit motive from the source of the high praise.

I really liked the closing statement from Cavin. This sounds like something you would hear from the sales counter...

"It's not the cheapest thing in the world, but for the average guy who hunts hogs maybe three times a year, what's $10 (per shot)," Cavin said.

The implication of this statement is huge, HUGE. If you are only hunting a very few times a year, you don't want to be wasting your money or normal buckshot that isn't likely to work for you. You need to spend the $10 a round to make sure you have the ammunition that will get the just done. After all, you don't hunt much so you can afford to the the exorbitant price.

 

[RMcL]

Double Naught Spy,

Context is important.

The Clarion Ledger article centered around a common dilemma, caused by the regulations facing hunters on state game management areas. The dilemma, using marginally effective arms and ammuntion or forgoing the opportunity to take any feral hogs.

Due to the unfortunate and ungrounded fear of off season deer poaching during small game seasons on Mississipi Game Management Areas, the MDWFP has limited wild hog hunters to rimfire firearms and shotguns using #2 shot or smaller.

In that context, using TSS #2 shot as a more effective option is indeed a "game changer" - abeit a more expensive one.

And your link shows that Soprogear also carries Federal Premium and Browning TSS ammunition lines.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

You keep using the term "game changer" like it means something and I like historical references as much as the next guy, don't get me wrong, but TSS #2 has been around for years, right? How is it now a game changer? The article in question is from March 2018. If TSS#2 from Apex is a "game changer" then the game has already changed and moved on, LOL.

The Clarion Ledger article isn't about Tungsten Shot. It is a Mississippi-based newspaper that is claiming this particular Mississippi brand's load is somehow superior to everything under the sun bolstered by an interview with a local Mississippi hunter, who just happens to work for a Mississippi company that profits from the sale of this particular product.

Yes, the sporting goods store for which the hunter works does sell other brands, but that wasn't what the article was about, was it? Did you notice any other brand mentioned in the article? Nope.

 

[RMcL]

You keep using the term "game changer" like it means something and I like historical references as much as the next guy, don't get me wrong, but TSS #2 has been around for years, right? How is it now a game changer? The article in question is from March 2018. If TSS#2 from Apex is a "game changer" then the game has already changed and moved on, LOL.

The Clarion Ledger article isn't about Tungsten Shot. It is a Mississippi-based newspaper that is claiming this particular Mississippi brand's load is somehow superior to everything under the sun bolstered by an interview with a local Mississippi hunter, who just happens to work for a Mississippi company that profits from the sale of this particular product.

Yes, the sporting goods store for which the hunter works does sell other brands, but that wasn't what the article was about, was it? Did you notice any other brand mentioned in the article? Nope.

As I understand, Tungsten Super Shot has been around for several years, first solely as a handloading proposition. Later small specialty ammunition companies picked up the product and last to the playing field - at least for turkey hunting - came the bigger commercial names. As of now, larger TSS sizes remain the realm of handloaders and small specialty ammo producers.

In the context of taking hogs during small game seasons on WMA properties large TSS is a game changer - unless the regulations change to allow much larger conventional lead shot.

Would Federal Premium and Browning TSS do the same thing? The answer is no - until they begin offering TSS sizes suitable for predator and deer hunting.

TSS a game changer? Sure, before TSS I doubt anyone would have considered using #9 shot, let alone in a .410 bore, for turkey hunting.

https://www.federalpremium.com/shotshell/premium-turkey/heavyweight-tss/11-PTSS419F+9.html

As always hunt with what you have confidence in - within game laws and area regulations.

 

[bamaranger]

key

If I understand the issue, one aspect is that on WMA's in MS (AL for that matter too, and those hunting waterfowl by federal regulation) restrict the shot size one may possess during waterfowl small game hunts/seasons. The agencies apparently have not gotten around to specifying composition of said shot other than no lead for waterfowl. Thus, one can legally possess TSS #2 shot, which is a better hog killer, than #2 lead (or steel) , should one stumble up on a hog or a hog stumble up to ones blind.

Not sure if everyone realizes that, nor am I certain I've got all that right either.

But, I cannot get the articles to the screen, and I do not waterfowl nor hog hunt, all speculation drawn from ongoing discussion.

 

[Two Bears]

It has been many years since I have hunted with buckshot as I once did in my youth in the pine forests of southern Arkansas for deer and Razorback boar. My methods and weapons have changed over the years as has my age. I now have great grandchildren, so I have passed the torch of different hunting traditions down to them. Having hunted from the swaps of Arkansas to the timberlines of Wyoming's Continental Divide east of Jackson Hole.

I have a first generation Ithaca DeerSlayer III with a parkerized rifled full bull barrel and laminated stock. She weighs 10lbs. empty without the scope. The barrel is screwed into the steel action and has a custom hand tuned trigger. Sort of a bean-field slug gun with a 26" barrel designed to hunt from a fixed position and very accurate.

Now if the occasion arose where I thought a "buckshot" load would be a better choice there is no doubt in my mind what I would choose. It covers longer ranges with a tighter pattern especially out of my fully rifled barrel with more power than any other I know of and that is Dixie Slugs "Tri-Ball" load. This load consist of three hard cast .600” round balls, in a heavy one piece plastic wad, at 1100’/”. Each ball weighs 320 grs and has a Ballistic Coefficient of 0.084 each packing 846 ft.Lbs. of energy at the muzzle and 630 ft.Lbs. at 60 yards. The .600”-320 gr. ball has 5.9 times the mass of the .33”-54 gr. #00 buckshot! It will pattern 6" or less at 40 yards out of my rifled bull barrel. It is just another option to see how it works out of your shotgun as it works out of smooth bores also. Oh, and it kicks. Happy hunting everyone!

 

[RMcL]

Now if the occasion arose where I thought a "buckshot" load would be a better choice there is no doubt in my mind what I would choose. It covers longer ranges with a tighter pattern especially out of my fully rifled barrel with more power than any other I know of and that is Dixie Slugs "Tri-Ball" load. This load consist of three hard cast .600” round balls, in a heavy one piece plastic wad, at 1100’/”. Each ball weighs 320 grs and has a Ballistic Coefficient of 0.084 each packing 846 ft.Lbs. of energy at the muzzle and 630 ft.Lbs. at 60 yards. The .600”-320 gr. ball has 5.9 times the mass of the .33”-54 gr. #00 buckshot! It will pattern 6" or less at 40 yards out of my rifled bull barrel. It is just another option to see how it works out of your shotgun as it works out of smooth bores also. Oh, and it kicks. Happy hunting everyone!

Truly a Game Changer! And clearly labeled as Buckshot.