TSA - illegal search? (and what about the firearms if any?)

Why would the TSA be obligated to open a duffle bag to verify no checked firearm? As far as I know, all luggage is x-rayed, and a firearm would show up on an x-ray. They opened the OP's duffle bag for some other reason.

Luggage is scanned which is probably why the bag was opened. The processing software is hardly 100% accurate. The only way to be sure is to look inside.


HOWEVER - I got to thinking. What if I had packed a gun, complied with all the requirements, locked and secured the gun in the luggage,,,then had the locks destroyed by the TSA - leaving the gun 100% available for theft by the airline workers? - - who have a pretty dismal track record for that sort of thing..

This is why some airports scan luggage in front of the passenger when the firearm is declared and then take control of the bag. It no longer needs to opened to be checked because it was already checked (and opened if need be).


AND... the OP also said this was a duffel bag... soft side... not legal for carrying a gun in anyways unless you put the gun in a hard-side case (think small Pelican pistol case) inside the duffel and THEN lock that with a non-TSA lock.

TSA approved cases come in all kinds of sizes. You can buy a small one for $15 at Walmart in the sporting goods section. The checked bag containing the gun does not have to be locked.
 
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Likely if they hadn't had to cut the lock there wouldn't even have been a note.
I've gotten that note several times, and my luggage wasn't even locked at all. I think they have to put it in there if they search it.
 
You must declare firearms in checked baggage when you check them.

Bring the hard case that has at least two lock hasps with the unloaded firearms inside to the airline check-in counter. Ammunition must be in factory cartons or cases designed to hold individual ammunition cartridges in their own compartment (no loose rounds, and no rounds in magazines or clips). Check your airline for their policy on ammunition quantity limits (it varies). Bring four non-TSA locks. They must be non-TSA locks because you must sign a affadavit that you alone have the key or combination and that no one else does and you cannot truthfully sign such knowing anyone else has TSA keys. Tell the airline agent you have firearms to declare (it's preferred you not use the word "gun") and that you have the locks. They'll have you sign the form declaring the firearms unloaded state and regarding the locks. They will instruct you from there.

At some airports, the airline agent will escort you to TSA with your case. Remind the TSA person you have the locks or if the airline had you put them on, remind TSA that you can remove them if necessary. This saves them from cutting them off. In some cases, they will just cut them off, and you will need the other two locks you brought with you. Yes, it can be that inane. It is the federal Government. If you don't want to be stopped from flying, bring four locks. Two locks might not be strictly required, but you do not want to get in an argument with someone who is convinced they remember something about locks on each end of a long gun cases or whether your snubnosed revolver is actually a long gun. Two locks per case avoids the argument. You would not believe how stupid people can be. I've heard them argue about whether guns had to be in individual hard cases or one hard case was enough for multiple guns. If you can avoid any arguments, its worth it because if someone decides to dig-in, your clock is running and you will be late for your flight while they will just go off shift and it's another day.

At some airports, the airline will have you lock the case with your affadavit inside and they deliver it to TSA. In this case, TSA x-rays the case and they'll do whatever they have to do or contact you if needed. It's more likely to happen this way at very small airports. Most of the time, expect to accompany your case to the airline and TSA.

If you've checked a bag with a firearm, expect to have to pick it up at the Baggage Service Office, and not off the carousel.

Also, you consent to the search when you check bags. It is not an illegal violation of your 4th amendment rights if you waive those rights and you do indeed do so when you check bags or consent to the search at the TSA checkpoint.


I don't think TSA should focus on guns, but on fire and explosive risks which do include lithium batteries besides bombs. Handguns should be allowed carry-on because a handgun cannot take down the entire plane. Some pilots and Sky Marshals are armed, but why not arm random passengers at their will? Terrorists and other would-be-hijackers with careful planning such as those that perpetrated 9/11 can easily identify pilots and sky marshals that carry and take them out by surprise. They cannot anticipate which passengers are armed and willing to resist and only firearms give otherwise weaker people the ability to overcome a stronger hijacker. The bottom line is an airline passenger compartment should not be a gun-free zone.
 
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labnoti - thank you for that informative post. Chances are, had I decided to ack a gun - I would have uncovered all that -but - you answered my concerns very well - & saved me a bunch of searching.

but because there was a non-TSA lock AND no declared checked firearm, they would be pretty obligated to remove the lock and verify no firearm. Is that correct?
No - the issue was - the TSA cut the lock off in order to go through the bag. According to the note left, the search was just random.

I simply got to wondering about what could have happened had I decided to pack a gun & the end result of the TSA cutting off the lock.

(Granted - a soft side case. like the duffle bag, i of absolutely no deterrence to anyone with a sharp blade.)
However - I'm a big believer in the idea that crooks are lazy & even a cheap lock is enough to make them just look somewhere else for easier pickings.

BUT how did you remove the battery from a laptop? Didn't know that was easy/possible.
Laptop batteries just slip out by moving a switch that unlocks them. Takes all of 2 or 3 seconds to do. Other electronic devices - not so easy.

Consider this, air travel is voluntary. No matter what "otherwise unConstitutional" seeming things they require, your rights are not being violated,
((sigh)) true enough here in 2019....but....had this happened back in 2002 - before years of .gov intrusion/conditioning - you can bet your bottom dollar there would be a far different reaction to what the .gov decides to do.
 
A lithium ion battery is a multitude of times more dangerous than even a loaded firearm in checked-in baggage.

Ever shoot a tiny cell phone battery? I have, at the club when no one was around. :D Pretty amazing how much energy that little thing generates and for how long. Imagine it going off at 30,000 ft. :eek:
 
I just returned from a trip by air, and somewhere in the written requirements that go along with getting a ticket was a clear statement that lithium batteries are not allowed in checked luggage. I have always carried my laptop in my carry on bag.
 
I travel

I've always had those happy feet, I travel a tremendous amount. Both domestically and internationally.

It sucks. That's the best description of airline travel today.

That said, be very aware who you get your info from. A SWA gate agent purposely gave me the wrong procedures to follow, watch out, the anti gun idiots are everywhere. Fortunately the cop they called was a reasonable guy and recognized I got played by the twit gate agent.

My last trip to Japan was about 5 years ago, due to go over again soon. Last trip I brought gifts for our hosts, in keeping with tradition.
Knowing my wrapped gifts would be opened by TSA the wrapping was designed to do so. Untie one ribbon, fold paper back.
Upon arrival in Japan it appeared the gifts were opened by 4 year old kids on Christmas morning. They tore it up so badly I could not salvage the wrapping paper to rewrap the gifts.
I raised heck with TSA upon my return to PDX. I did learn that the TSA management was being replaced as I met the new boss of TSA @ PDX.

At least some TSA employees are thieves, do not put a good knife in the outside pocket of a checked bag.

They are the mall cops of the airport.
 
inspection

The search of the bag by TSA is better termed an inspection,and is one of the exemptions allowed under the 4th Amendment concerning search and seizure, and not all that different from a border inspection as described by another poster. You want in this country, the gov't can inspect your stuff. You wanna fly, same, same.

I am not an expert on TSA, but suspect if one had packed the gun with all legal compliance, doing so would include declaring at the ticket counter. The bag at that point would have been inspected to confirm the handgun was in an approved locked container within, likely tagged as such, and then NOT selected for a random inspection later.
 
I checked with a buddy of mine at the TSA. Basically, he said they don't have time for random inspections. They call them "random inspections" because it makes people feel better about the fact that the computer or operator saw something they thought was suspicious and pulled the bag for a closer look. Apparently, people get really insulted about their belongings being suspect, hence the note about it being "random." Anyway, 99% of the scanning is computer controlled and the computer has all sorts of comparative analytical data such that when something shows up that doesn't fit the norms, the bag gets diverted for inspection. Most of the time, there is no issue, but they have to check to verify that there isn't an issue with something that is apparently mimicking a problem material, though once in a while, it is a problem material.
 
Firearms bags to the BSO is an airline policy, so it will depend on the airline. It is not a TSA or FAA requirement, but it is a popular policy with a lot of airlines and the big ones.
 
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